There's a good book which really dives into the deconversion process of a former missionary:
https://www.amazon.com/Why-Believed-Reflections-Former-Missionary-ebook/dp/B003UNLMRY
I read it when I was questioning my own faith (along with reading, Erhman, Price, Crossan, Meier, Sanders, etc.). And, for the record, I'm still a Christian today, but less dogmatic.
The author was raised in a conservative church, and basically was shook when he encountered challenges to what he was taught. He didn't even know these challenges existed! In my view, most churches in the US is doing a poor job of equipping people to face the real, tough questions of the Bible. Too much sheltering and holding people by the hand.
Two big issues I remember from the author's journey:
- The doctrine of most humans being tormented in hell forever
- The lousy science behind creationism
These two issues really make him shake his head at the Bible.
Dr. Tim Stratton, a protégé of Dr. Craig, has just published his dissertation on this very subject. I just finished it an it is excellent:
https://smile.amazon.com/dp/B08LL3Q3T5/ref=cm\_sw\_em\_r\_mt\_dp\_NeDaGbJE675W
A really fantastic advanced book on philosophical arguments for theism is The Blackwell Companion To Natural Theology. Each chapter is written by leading philosophers of religion and it is one of the best overviews around.
As someone who works for a small ministry and is required to gain support I have some recommendations. I hope you don't mind this unsolicited advice but I would be pleasantly surprised on your behalf if you get much engagement.
Good luck and God bless as you follow where God is leading you.
>if we agree with you that it’s a true code, then we now have an example of a true code that we have no demonstrations has been designed.
It absolutely, positively, concretely is circular reasoning.
Codes are never, ever, ever the result of random chance. You fail to provide one example of a code occurring without thought. Codes are the result of intelligent thoughts, communicating clear instructions.
>Provide actual demonstrable evidence -
The fact that you have to ask shows you have not already seen the alternative view in extensive form and that you have to ask on reddit for proof shows that you made a decision without looking at the evidence.
Tons already written on this.
Evolution Impossible: 12 Reasons Why Evolution Cannot Explain the Origin of Life on Earth
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B008GUMR84/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_glc_Q2377YM4HEY9H0QJ619E
By Dr John F Ashton PhD CChem.
Free pdf download:
Signature in the Cell: DNA and the Evidence for Intelligent Design
Ok, I'm done here. Not reading this thread anymore. Pointless. Sure you will not even look at the evidence.
You can get the same book, same edition, cheaper by using the US side of the Amazon web site. https://www.amazon.com/Quest-Historical-Adam-Scientific-Exploration/dp/080287911X/
There's a book called Revelation: Four Views, A Parallel Commentary by Steve Gregg that attempts to weighs this question through the four views of Historicism, Partial-Preterism, Futurism, and Idealism. Gregg is a partial preterist, but he seems pretty fair to the other views. I think they all have something to offer, though I lean more Futurist.
The evidence points to YHWH as being a distinct god from El. He was originally worshipped as a Judean war god, a brother and rival to Baal (also a god of war and fertility), and the son of El and Asherah. As the Judeans rose to power, they usurped the Canaanite gods with their own. YHWH was depicted as a "jealous god" who forbade worship of El, Ball, and Asherah and commanded people to tear down their idols and temples. Anti-Asherah sentiment can be found throughout the Old Testament. Later, YHWH began to incorporate the roles of Baal, Asherah, and El into his own domain. As a final stroke, it was "revealed" that YHWH and El were not rivals, but YHWH was El all along, taking his place as chief of gods as the Judeans gained power.
The apologetic that address this disturbing archaeological narrative is basically that people are stupid. While this narrative may in fact be the case and people may have in fact YHWH as a separate god from El and worshiped him alongside Baal and Asherah, these people were wrong. The gods they worshiped either didn't exist (at best) or, worst case scenario, they were demons and fallen angels pretending to be gods to sow division among the weak-minded.
Eventually, the "true" God "corrected" His poor, mislead people and took his rightful place as the one and only God.
I think the best apologetic is to shrug your shoulders and agree, yes, that's what the archaeology supports. That doesn't mean that those ancient people were correct in worshiping YHWH as one god among many. There has always been just one God and those people were either plain wrong or mislead by demons or fallen angels.
I recommend Mark S. Smith "The Early History of God: Yahweh And the Other Deities of Ancient Israel
No problem at all :) I think that Gary Habermas has some good books on the topic as well: <em>The Case for the Resurrection of Jesus</em>
As a matter of fact, yes, there are Christian Apologists that have published work on this subject. As you can probably imagine it's a relatively niche part of apologetics so it's understandable why there isn't that much on the subject. I highly recommend you go check out Dr. Shandon Guthrie's Gods of this World: A Philosophical Discussion and Defense of Christian Demonology I sure hope this helps. Have a wonderful day and God bless :)
I just watched this : https://youtu.be/Eh3k_A9ugOo . I understand what you’re saying, I think I’ll read ESV along side it. I bought this one: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Bible-Authorized-Version-Oxford-Classics/dp/0199535949
Your question, then, is not about being "elect" but whether Christianity is true over Loki, or Poseidon, or Ramah, or any number of alternate deities. That's a bigger question than can be addressed on Reddit, but I'd say you should check out:
https://www.amazon.com/Twelve-Points-That-Show-Christianity/dp/1530645921/ref=sr_1_4?dchild=1&keywords=why+christianity+is+true&qid=1615814435&sr=8-4
> I haven't got anywhere near the claim that there is no truth in other religions
Religions might say murder is wrong but they might say it's wrong because it offends the goddess under the sea - not that you're hurting an innocent life or something. We know murder is wrong because we created laws for that - and yet people still do it.
If religion isn't scientific then I'm happy to not believe in it. Belief is natural - the Christians I was asking make it seem like religious belief is not natural but a supernatural gift from god. Then that begs the question of how non-Christians acquire faith. I'm implying they convinced themselves of the truth of the religion, just like Christians do.
https://www.amazon.com/dp/0358329612 - You're basically saying - Mistakes were made but not by me.
> I don't think the story of the fall is a literal historical event,
You might be surprised by Joshua Swadamkss’ demonstration in his new book that the evidence absolutely does not contradict the possibility of a literal Adam and Eve about 6,000 years ago.
> evidence for animal death before the existence of humans though
Irrelevant to whether there was a literal Adam and Eve, as Joshua Swadamkss demonstrates in his new book. The evidence absolutely does not contradict the possibility of a literal Adam and Eve about 6,000 years ago.
>There is no evidence corroborating the claim outside of the text itself.
The Bible is not just one book, it is a collection of many sources. Ancient history almost always relies on putting trust on just a single source - the Biblical texts are actually much better supported than nearly any other source that we base history on.
Ancient historians have developed reliable methods of determining the historical value of particular claims within sources. They look for how many corroborating, independent sources there are that are making the same claim. (By the way, if there are two books that 'contradict' each other, it's a good sign that they are coming from different, independent sources, and the things that they have in common are actually strengthened.)
I personally don't adopt a "literal" reading of the Bible, nor even an uncritical one. As I said before, there are plenty of really great Christians who don't think the Bible is inerrant. However, there are also a lot of really great atheists who are willing to acknowledge that the Biblical texts have historical value. You might be interested in "Did Jesus Exist?" by skeptic scholar Bart Ehrman.
Here is a long video that slowly unpacks the historical evidence for Christianity from the bottom up. It starts with only evidence outside the Bible, then moves towards evidence within the Biblical texts themselves, and presents the case as to why the stories are reliable. I'd be genuinely interested to hear your response to the arguments depicted in that video.
If you can find a copy of Lady Gregory's Complete Irish Mythology, you might find the resources you're looking for.
https://www.amazon.com/Lady-Gregorys-Complete-Irish-Mythology/dp/0753703912
I've been learning with my fiancee because it means alot to her, so I'm somewhat familiar with these things.
Andrew Hill wrote a commentary on Daniel that defends the early date
That said, I think there is one overriding reason why Daniel must be a product of the second century BC, all quibbling over historical and linguistic minutiae aside.
In Daniel 11, the author describes the career of Antiochus Epiphanes with amazing accuracy...right up to verse 40, where he loses the plot and predicts Antiochus will once again invade Israel, and die there, his death be immediately followed by the end of the world and establishment of God's kingdom on earth.
This did not happen. Antiochus died in Persia, and the world failed to end.
So there are two options; Daniel wrote the bulk of his amazing prophecies after they happened, and when he attempted the actual foretelling of things that had not yet happened, he failed.
Or, Daniel was a real sixth century BC seer whose prophetic abilities for some reason sputtered out right at c.165 BC.
Neither seems like an attractive option for someone who wants to maintain the early date of the book.
If you haven’t had a chance to read it yourself, pick up Mark S. Smith’s The Early History of God: Yahweh and the Other Deities in Ancient Israel
I’ve only recently heard of him, but he just came out with a book that apparently has some of this in there. It’s called Unearthing The Bible.
Unearthing the Bible: 101 Archaeological Discoveries That Bring the Bible to Life https://www.amazon.com/dp/0736979158/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_glc_fabc_A2t2Fb9ZQD1HG?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1
I've started Enoch, but haven't gotten very far lol. I bought this book which includes deutero-canonical works of several demoninations (it includes Jubilees and Enoch as well), but am reading it straight-through (though I haven't touched it in like 6 months lol).
>Anyway without spoilers on hilber , in order for a non literal read of 7 day creation, there seems to be need of an assumption that the author drew upon some previous significance of the quantitative seven- ness from sources elsewhere (which in my mind leads to an 'infinite regress' of literary contingency.) What do you think is more prime, thematically, than the 7 day creation?
I'm not sure exactly what you're asking. But I think its essentially, 'what is the creation narrative pointing to that is more thematically important than material creation?' If that's right, then I would say two things that are somewhat related. As a framework, I believe that the creation narrative is a Temple narrative. As a main theological under-pinning in terms of narrative, I think that it is in regards to God's sovereignty over what he has made. In surrounding myths, creation comes about by accident or by the gods struggling to do what they want. But with YHWH, he is in control over every aspect of creation. Chaos may be in the creation, but God's work is not hindered by it - he is still sovereign over it.
I've started Enoch, but haven't gotten very far lol. I bought this book which includes deutero-canonical works of several demoninations (it includes Jubilees and Enoch as well), but am reading it straight-through (though I haven't touched it in like 6 months lol).
>Anyway without spoilers on hilber , in order for a non literal read of 7 day creation, there seems to be need of an assumption that the author drew upon some previous significance of the quantitative seven- ness from sources elsewhere (which in my mind leads to an 'infinite regress' of literary contingency.) What do you think is more prime, thematically, than the 7 day creation?
I'm not sure exactly what you're asking. But I think its essentially, 'what is the creation narrative pointing to that is more thematically important than material creation?' If that's right, then I would say two things that are somewhat related. As a framework, I believe that the creation narrative is a Temple narrative. As a main theological under-pinning in terms of narrative, I think that it is in regards to God's sovereignty over what he has made. In surrounding myths, creation comes about by accident or by the gods struggling to do what they want. But with YHWH, he is in control over every aspect of creation. Chaos may be in the creation, but God's work is not hindered by it - he is still sovereign over it.
It isn't asserted, it is defended and, IMHO, proven.
Here is my summary of the argument. http://www.theisted.com/causal-finitude-defended/
Infinite causal chains create a logical contradiction that finite causal chains do not. Please read Pruss's work - https://www.amazon.com/Infinity-Causation-Paradox-Alexander-Pruss-ebook/dp/B07H3ZRRNR
For moral arguments: Most theistic moral arguments hinge on moral realism, which is the view that moral values are objectively true or false. So I'd recommend checking out some books about that (such as this one).
For a popular level book on some of the classical apologetics arguments, I recommend On Guard by William Lane Craig.
https://www.amazon.com/Did-Jesus-Exist-Historical-Argument/dp/0062206443
Read this Book, even Bart Ehrman argues for the historicity of Jesus. While I, as a Christian, dissagree with him on many points, like Jesus being an apocalyptic preacher who thought the world was going to end in the next generation (he is an atheist known for criticizing Christianity, but he is actually a scholar), he still proves that Jesus very well existed.
Gold fillings are not exclusivity of the Toronto Blessing. I know reports of similar miracles at least from the Argentine Revival with Carlos Annacondia (80s) and Claudio Freidzon (80s, 90s). Check out the book "Listen to me, Satan!" by Carlos Annacondia (it's freely available here) and search for the word "gold". You will find a few reports (among many other miracles). Also read the book "Holy Spirit, I hunger for you" (link) by Claudio Freidzon, he describes the beginnings of his ministry in the context of the Argentine Revival, and reports many cases of gold teeth fillings in his evangelistic crusades.
I find it surprising that William Lane Craig's signature book Reasonable Faith is not mentioned. Craig is pretty much agreed upon to be the greatest living Christian apologist, even by many Catholics. Reasonable Faith is his main book (pretty sophisticated), while On Guard is the same material, but simplified for us mere mortals.
Why four Gospels by David Alan Black was a great intro to the Markan topic. He goes over why he thinks we can trust the church father's on the dating of the Gospels.
Can we trust the Gospels by Peter J. Williams. If you look up YouTube videos with him you can find basically him teaching his book. He goes over some resources too.
That's all I got for now, that is basic stuff with resources in the books for going deeper. I can look through my New Testament survey book and share some others.
Hey /u/TheUnofficialPablo!
Please read <em>The Reason for God</em>, by Tim Keller. It saved my faith.
This is what I use. I saw it was highly rated on Amazon and upon going through it, found it to be packed with information. Each Surah has background information as well as a significant amount of commentary on the actual verses That said, there has been some controversy over it on certain issues, but most seem to agree that it is packed with knowledge in terms of being a Study Quran
https://www.amazon.com/Study-Quran-New-Translation-Commentary/dp/0061125873
Please do not simply hand wave away the argument. It is actually thoroughly built and elaborated on in hte book Infinity, Causation and Paradox by Alexander Pruss.
Perhaps the greatest strength of this logical proof is that it is so simple and has no bizarre components...
If anyone who is interested prefers a physical edition. I've also added an explanation for the price differences in my blog.
I would probably recommend these two books as a departure point if you want to hear about this from the other side:
And
I hope it goes without saying that if you ever want to directly message me to chat I would be more than happy to.
>I'm not sure if we can say one way or another if God can know "ifs" and possibilities
But I can know ifs and possibilities. Had I not typed checked my reddit mail again I would be uploading Aristotle's Nicomachean Ethics to my kindle right now. If I can know that, clearly God can.
>God's knowledge is so perfect that he doesn't discover anything, he knows it originally - and ordains that it should occur.
Fully and completely agree.
>As we've discussed elsewhere, I just don't see it portrayed biblically that God had an infinite number of choices (possible worlds) from which to choose which one he would actualize.
Yes biblically it isn't stated. Is it stated biblically that God is causally active in every choice we make? Not the use of wording there. Not that he is sovereign, no that he foreordains it, but that he is causally active.
>If I have libertarian free will, there can be no influence upon my will to choose one or the other or else my decision is determined by something other than the will itself.
Not that case at all. Libertarian free will definitely holds that there can be influences. Those influences just don't determine our choices, we do.
>You cannot have an "affected" will without those effects determining the decision in one way or another.
No. Simply having influences and things that would incline you (even strongly) towards one choice over another doesn't mean they are determined by those choices.
>Is soft libertarianism the same thing as compatibilism? If not, what's the difference?
No compatibilism says our choices are determined by our character which we cannot change. Soft libertarian free will says that our choices determines the range of our choices and that our choices and character affect each other.
The question I usually encourage people to ask is, "Who is influencing whom?" If you are influencing him then it's good to keep him around with appropriate boundaries. This is a good book that can help you witness clearly to your cousin about what God's word says. The goal is to get him to see the greatness and the value of Christ and what it means to be his.
It always breaks my heart when people identify as their sin. The world in hopelessness just gives up. Sinful sexual impulses okay just be gay. They give up the beauty of being made in the image of God.