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That's just terrible. Those are some spiritually immature people.
Personally, I found this article to be an excellent explanation of what a truly Christian response to suffering needs to be, instead of the cruel Bible-thumping that happened to you. It's also been extended into a book, Doors of the Sea.
I'm sorry that your thoughts are all muddled up about this. It sounds like evangelical Christinaity has really done a number on you.
The best thing you can do is to take a breather, you won't be able to figure anything out while you're terrified, stressed, and overwhelmed. Leave it all alone for a while, put whatever faith you have on the backburner, go through the motions of whatever church life you have, and don't worry about the deep questions for a long while, until you feel stronger and you're in a better place in your life to dig into them.
You don't need to know everything, you don't need to figure it all out right now.
Focus right now on seeing a doctor about your depression, look into Cognitive-Behavioural Therapy (CBT). If you can't afford a therapist, there are websites or books you can read to help you work through CBT techniques yourself. Mind over Mood is a good book recommended by doctors for patients. Its not a replacement for a good doctor and appropriate medication, but it can help a lot alongside it.
Eventually, when you're in a better place, you can look a bit more carefully and clearly at why you're so terrified of hell, and why that is driving you into such a tailspin. You can figure out what you believe, and why you beleive it, without being torn apart and spun around by fear and depression. Because right now, you can't deal with it, and you shouldn't put that on yourself as another burden to carry.
I just read that article. What Elizabeth Johnson is saying, we so need to hear! I absolutely loved how she dealt with the topic of atonement, and how Anselm’s idea totally leaves out the centrality of resurrection!
I wept reading that. Because truly, Anselm stole from us the beautifully abounding and freely outpoured mercy of God. And in so doing, so warped our understanding of the True Nature of God's Love...for all creation!
Anyhow, here’s the link to her book “Creation and the Cross”, which I’m now reading the intro to on Amazon…
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0773R74HY/ref=dp-kindle-redirect?_encoding=UTF8&btkr=1
Hey buddy. Here’s a book about universal salvation that is sure to relieve you of your worries:
https://www.amazon.com/That-All-Shall-Saved-Universal/dp/0300246226
I suffer from OCD also. If you want to talk about it, message me. I would love to talk about it and share my experiences with you. Trust me, I know OCD and the thoughts that it presents extremely well. I know you are in a dark place right now, but you will be okay. You are safe.
“Fear not” is in the Bible 365 times. God wants you to be free of anxiety, not full of dread and despair. You are not going to Hell, nor are your loved ones.
If you have not yet done so, check out David Bentley Hart's book That All Shall Be Saved. He is a reputable scholar, and in that book he provides not only an excellent argument in favor of universalism, but answers your specific question about αιον.
Below is just one paragraph from several pages dealing with the Greek words αιων and αιωνιος:
>No matter how we interpret the discrete terms, however, we must never forget that today the entire ensemble of references that we bring to these phrases is wholly detached from the religious world of Christ's time, and particularly from its eschatological expectations. It seems absolutely certain, for instance, that the words αιων and αιωνιος are frequently used in the New Testament as some kind of reference to the 'olam ha-ba, "the Age to come," which is to say the Age of God's Kingdom, or of that cosmic reality now hidden in God that will be made manifest at history's end. It seems fairly certain, at least, that in the New Testament, and especially in the teachings of Jesus, the adjective αιωνιος is the equivalent of something like the phrase le-olam; and yet it is no less certain that this usage cannot be neatly discriminated from the language of the 'olam ha-ba without losing something of the special significance it surely possessed in Christ's time. The issue then is not one of how long, but rather of when, or of what frame of reality -- what realm, that is, within or beyond history.
That last sentence answers your question most succinctly: the words αιων and αιωνιος refer more to a "when" and less to a "how long" time frame.
The most accessible book is The Spiritual World of Isaac the Syrian, a curated anthology by Hilarion Alfeyev and Kallistos Ware. Isaac's actual writings on universalism are contained in The Second Part (named because it's a translation of the second corpus of his writings), but that's a bit expensive to get.
Yale University Press: https://yalebooks.yale.edu/book/9780300246223/all-shall-be-saved
Amazon: $23.40 USD That All Shall Be Saved: Heaven, Hell, and Universal Salvation https://www.amazon.com/dp/0300246226/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_i_O44.CbWM0VRCF
Will be released September 24, 2019
> My question is, how much then can we trust the bible in general? It was traditionally believed that the bible was put together and preserved through divine inspiration. If we're going to chock up mistranslations of words to human errors, why not start being critical about the texts that support universalism? Or why not question which books at all should be included in the bible or not?
If you want a really in-depth history of the compilation of the canon of the New Testament, check out Bruce Metzger's work The Canon of the New Testament. There are a lot of contributing factors to why we have the books we have. Some were reactions to heretics, others were practical ease of use, etc.
> Like, aion doesn't mean eternity, but means age.
This one's a bit trickier, given how long αιωνιος has been translated "eternal" and whatnot. Suffice it to say that the word doesn't answer a "for how long" question, but a "when" question. I think it could best be translated "the age of eternity." So when we see "eternal life" it means something more like "the life of the age of eternity." Essentially, the life that is grounded, and will come to fulfillment, in the "next age," i.e. the eschaton.
If you're interested in universal reconciliation, I recommend the book That All Shall Be Saved by David Bentley Hart, it makes an extremely strong case in my view.
Here's another, which is more along the lines of an Advent devotional - by pastor Brian Zahnd
Maybe a book study discussion?
The second edition of Zondervan’s Four Views on Hell is pretty balanced: https://www.amazon.com/Four-Views-Hell-Counterpoints-Theology/dp/0310516463 I’ve also heard good things about Steve Gregg’s All You Want To Know About Hell: https://www.amazon.com/All-Want-Know-About-Hell/dp/1401678300
Origen definitely taught the summing up of all things in Christ. That part is clear. He was without doubt a Christian Universalist, who believed in apokatastasis.
Whether he thought that might includes multiple worlds or lifetimes remains a matter of dispute. In the article I linked, Dr Charles Stang suggests Origen did think this summing up might take more than one life. But I think Dr Stang is relying on older scholarship.
Whereas the more recent scholarship of Panayiotis Tzamalikos, one of the most serious Origen scholars to date supposedly “demolishes the myth that Origen upheld theories such as the preexistence and transmigration of souls” in his recent work…
“Guilty of Genius: Origen and the Theory of Transmigration”, by Panayiotis Tzamalikos…
https://www.amazon.com/Guilty-Genius-Origen-Theory-Transmigration/dp/1433185695
So for the most in depth recent scholarly perspective, I might check out what Tzamalikos has to say. In particular I was impressed by his knowledge of Greek philosophy and his understanding of the ways in which Origen innovated philosophical ideas to bring them into greater alignment with the revelation of Scripture and the teachings of the early church.
Meanwhile, many Jewish rabbis today include reincarnation or “gilgul” as part of their understanding of God’s plans, since the mystical teachings of Isaac Luria in the 16th century.
Eastern Catholic. Win-win! 🎉 The texts for the services (Vespers/Matins) are filled with explicit promises that all are recapitulated in Christ -Logos
“The Promises” (excerpt from On First Principles by the holy Hieromartyr/Confessor Origenes Adamantios
People here have essentially already answered your question, but I highly recommend this book: https://www.amazon.com/Gods-Final-Victory-Philosophical-Universalism/dp/1623568498
>I think we are in ongoing dialogue with the Text and the revelation of others. I love revelation.
Great, but you didn't answer my questions concerning this, so I can't see it as anything but irrational.
>With further study, I’ve experienced what some might refer to as a demythologization of the Text (as touched on by NT scholars such as Rudolph Bultmann and others).
So, does God exist? Is Jesus God? What is salvation? Where does this revelation, that you love, coming from?
>Perhaps you haven’t reached that point yet, but many have.
I came the opposite way; a non-believer who thought the Bible was myth until later in life.
>As such, I no longer believe in the historicity of magical trees, talking snakes, 500 year old guys who build football field sized boats to save a library of the world’s animals, etc. To continue to believe in mythological stories as though they were factual and historical was not true faith, wisdom, or discernment. Such was just my early indoctrination.
But no way your current view could be indoctrination? I mean I asked some crtital q
>Anyhow, this is a summary by Matt Baker of leading Israeli archaeologist Israel Finkelstein’s findings with regards to biblical historicity from his book “The Bible Unearthed”.
I read that too; I also read Hess's critique of that book which lead me to Hess's The Old Testament: A Historical, Theological, and Critical Introduction
The best resource honestly is going to be to come to a Divine Liturgy and talk with the priest a bit, learn directly from the source! But as far as literature, I've found that The Orthodox Way by Kallistos Ware is an excellent introduction.
Justinian was a voice of materialism that thought along anthropomorphite/epicurean lines.
https://books.apple.com/us/book/origen-of-alexandria/id1614541635
Resurrected as a spiritual body (sōma pneumatikon) … —St Paul, 1 Corinthians 15.44
Origen, On First Principles, The “The Promises” (excerpt from On First Principles by Priest Origenes Adamantios
This isn't specifically universalist related, but Endangered Gospel by John Nugent really shifted my view on what Church is and does (more importantly, what it doesn't do).
Hey there, sorry for the delayed reply: I couldn't see your response until now for some reason. Bishop Barron is great, but the best introduction to Catholicism would be Ratzinger's Introduction to Christianity: https://www.amazon.com/Introduction-Christianity-2nd-Communio-Books/dp/1586170295. Ratzinger is a genius and I can't think of a better introduction than his.
I know I'm super late to the party - but, Robin Parry in the second volume of A Larger Hope? says this:
>Origen and others who embraced apokatastasis were, however, very cautious about preaching it openly lest unspiritual and immature people use it as a license to sin (Origen, Cels 5.16; 6.26; Comm. Rom. 5.1.7; Hom. Ezech. 1.3.5). They would preach coming judgment and the fires of gehenna to the masses, often failing to mention that such fire was temporary, because they believed that fear was a factor that could help in restraining sin in some people.
You should look into that book, it's free as an ebook from amazon (or pdf on the author's site) and covers all the arguments for UR.
One of the big reasons I accepted UR was because the logical/historical arguments were SIGNIFICANTLY stronger for it than eternal hell. That covers the basics, and it's free so I like to recommend it.
You probably mean historical figures but David Bently Hart is a contemporary universalist and he wrote a a book about it. He mentions several names in the book too. But maybe you've read that already, i've seen Mr Hart and his book mentioned here a lot. Here is a link to the book on Amazon UK
For now, at least, Sprinkle says he "leans toward annihilation."
But, as I point out in my review of "Erasing Hell" (See "Erasing Hell" should have been subtitled: "Universalism Is Definitely False, But We Don't Know Why", which, to my surprise, is the top review of the book on Goodreads), the authors' supporting theology for ECT is fundamentally in conflict with itself. So, I suspect that we haven't seen the end of Sprinkle's shift on this subject until he comes finally to rest on his assessment of Arminianism and Calvinism.
Personally I think that sometimes fiction can resonate with us and help us process things better than rational facts. I don't know if it will help you but I wrote a short story a while back to work through some of my thoughts about Hell and Heaven. Don't be put off by the beginning as it starts with a depiction of the traditional terrifying ideas about the afterlife, and then the character realises things aren't the way he'd thought.
See here for <em>The Gates of Heaven</em>.
Furthermore if you like Sci-Fi, I would recommend reading the excellent <em>Surface Detail</em> by Iain M. Banks, which really helped me recognise the sheer insanity of Hell as a human creation made purely in order to terrorise people. I found it easier to recognise Hell for what it was and it lost a lot of its power after reading that novel.
Hope Beyond Hell is great, it covers all the basics in an easy-to-understand manner, AND the digital version is free on Amazon, or as a PDF on the author's website.
I read it when I was first trying to learn about UR and it was a huge help.
>2) I showed you two verses that supported it. You tried to discount them by saying all doesn’t actually mean all. When I showed you that it’s the same word for all used in Romans 3:23, which is an all encompassing all, you agreed!
It depends on the context; "all" can mean "all", but not always.
>3) Yes, apparently they are. There weren’t a bunch of Christian missionaries roaming about the Americas preaching the gospel to the Native Americans here, were there?
I would point you to the Bible; Revelation 7:9 -After this I looked, and behold, a great multitude that no one could number, from every nation, from all tribes and peoples and languages, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, clothed in white robes, with palm branches in their hands
No one is outside of God's reach!
Eternity in Their Hearts shows that cultures throughout the world -pagan, polytheistic - have evidence of belief in the one true God within hundreds of them.
>How would they possibly have known about Jesus? The could not have.
You have too low of a view of God.
>1 John 2:2
Yes salvation is offered to all; a response of repentance and faith is needed.
>“ETC doesn’t teach torture...” Eternal Conscious Torment. Are you joking right now? It’s literally in the name.
did you read the argument in the link?
You mean about universal salvation specifically?
John Behr released a new translation of Origen's On First Principles: https://www.amazon.com/Origen-First-Principles-Oxford-Christian/dp/0198845316/ref=sr_1_1?dchild=1&keywords=on+first+principles&qid=1602880712&s=books&sr=1-1
Another work often recommended in On the Soul and the Resurrection by Gregory of Nyssa.
Feel free to stop with part 1. I grow weary of your ignorance in the matter overall. You've made up your mind to stubbornly defend your position, without regard for the history of the development of doctrine or the text of scripture in its original languages, and willfully ignore the possibility that Universalists might have something intelligible to say.
I'm quite literally only recounting corroborated historical developments and reading the text of the Bible to you. This is all verifiable information. If you want more information, go look for it outside of reddit. Maybe read Origen? Pick up Mounce's introduction to Greek? Feel free to acquire a bit of historical background as well. I recommend Gonzalez' two books.
This book on various views of election including comments by universalist Thomas Talbott may be of interest:
https://www.amazon.com/Perspectives-Election-Chad-Brand/dp/0805427295
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I suspect the argument is more directly elaborated upon by its original author. According to Amazon, <u>The Deliverance of God</u> clocks in at upwards of 1200 pages.
As an additional note: I can't find the pdf online anymore, but I remember that The Source (an NT translation by a Greek scholar) renders Jesus' phrase as "eternal chastisement." Ann Nyland still believes "eternal" is the best translation, but "chastisement" (kolasis) is apparently more ambiguous. It could mean that punishment is eternal, or that the effects of the punishment are eternal, and depending on how you treat kolasin those effects could either be annihilation or rehabilitation.
Edit: Relevant quote from William Barclay
>The word for punishment is kolasis. The word was originally a gardening word, and its original meaning was pruning trees. In Greek there are two words for punishment, timoria and kolasis, and there is a quite definite distinction between them. Aristotle defines the difference; kolasis is for the sake of the one who suffers it; timoria is for the sake of the one who inflicts it. Plato says that no one punishes (kolazei) simply because he has done wrong - that would be to take unreasonable vengeance (timoreitai). We punish (kolazei) a wrong-doer in order that he may not do wrong again (Protagoras 323 E). Clement of Alexandria (Stromateis 4.24; 7.16) defines kolasis as pure discipline, and timoria as the return of evil for evil. Aulus Gellius says that kolasis is given that a man may be corrected; timoria is given that dignity and authority may be vindicated (The Attic Nights7.14). The difference is quite clear in Greek and it is always observed. Timoria is retributive punishment. Kolasis is always given to amend and to cure.