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O H H E L L Y E S T H E R E I S: https://www.amazon.com/Drama-Gifted-Child-Search-Revised/dp/0465016901.
This was was the first book I read after I came to terms with being NPD. This book does not apply to all narcissists, but it is certainly one of the ways narcissism develops. This is a turning point for you, good job and keep it up.
"if I’m not special, I’m worthless and purposeless" is really good insight and something I dealt with a lot too. Feeling like your "normal" has to be "ultra". You're "normal" has to be "special", and anything less feels like death. You have to win at every video game. Your partner has to be the hottest. You have to have the best job/grades, score the most goals/point, have the nicest mind/greatest body! Because you, well you're special!!
It takes a lot of time to learn to drop these expectations, because you don't know how to feel good about yourself without them but paradoxically the weight of them is so much to bear. But once you drop them, tell the world to fuck off, embrace your authentic self even when it means you're nothing special, you will finally find a peaceful existence.
It’s not a self treatment book, but I think you’ll find a lot of information on how to heal yourself in this book as well as some answers to why you may be the way you are. It’s written by a professional who specializes in treating men who exhibit all sorts of narcissistic traits/symptoms.
I don’t understand why I can really relate to this but I’m not a diagnosed anything. Why does this seem more like the human condition in general than specific to NPD? I feel this all the time when I’m reading here.
One of this guy’s other books on cptsd was recommended here and this is another good one that I’ve been listening to on audiobooks.
https://www.amazon.ca/Tao-Fully-Feeling-Harvesting-Forgiveness-ebook/dp/B017I3NRRO
Feel the feels. Honestly, it feels terrible until it gets better. It’s like climbing out of a molten lava volcano to plush grass. Sometimes, not all the time.
I get you. It sounds like you have the "quiet" variety of BPD, i.e. your negative feelings are directed towards yourself (as opposed to towards the external world). Do you engage in self harm (cutting, etc) or have substance abuse issues?
I am also guessing your NPD is of the vulnerable (covert) type like mine.
Actually, having both is not the worst thing in the world. Having BPD rather than pure NPD makes it more likely for you to have affective empathy which many people with NPD struggle with (only having cognitive empathy).
To work on myself, I have just been learning tons and tons about narcissism. This includes Youtube videos, groups on here, including this group, r/narcissism but also narcissism abuse support groups to get a look at my behavior from another perspective, i.e. r/NarcissisticAbuse. My mom has undiagnosed NPD and I was emotionally abused by her, so I am also in r/raisedbynarcissists to deal with my trauma.
I am also learning lots and lots about psychology, healthy attachment styles, healthy boundaries etc. I cant afford intensive therapy yet but I will start as soon as I can.
You should definitely check out DBT - dialectical behavioral therapy, you can either work with a therapist or on your own if you cannot afford it. here is the workbook from Amazon:
https://www.amazon.com/Dialectical-Behavior-Therapy-Skills-Workbook/dp/1572245131
Regarding confidence, may I recommend this fantastic book?
It's really very good. It works with self compassion, meaning you learn to show yourself that compassion you should have received from others and thereby develop a healthy sense of self worth.
I did take the NPI. Multiple times. I took it once at the start of my therapy but I didn’t see the results, but I saw how my answers to the questions of the inventory changed as I became self-aware. My diagnosis was only formally disclosed to me 2.5 years in the therapy process to avoid rejection, but I had doubts.
I’ve gotten second opinions.
I know I have NPD. It fits how I work and how I relate to myself, others and the world.
Covert and overt narcissists manifest the symptoms in drastically different ways. I suggest you ask actual people who have the disorder instead of relying on Wikipedia and Psychology Today. It goes far beyond the tendency to seek help or not.
Edit: Just FYI, the only thing the study you posted correlates is positive answers to the NPI and to the SINS. It doesn’t address current concerns about the validity of the NPI itself, which are quite major right now in the research community. It is no longer considered an accurate way to diagnose NPD by multiple researchers. See this book. And also this paper: "Moreover, several researchers state that the NPI primarily concentrates on the grandiose facets of normal narcissism and fails to capture the vulnerable qualities inherent to the disorder (e.g., feelings of shame and insecurity; e.g., Cramer, 2011)." and "Thus, when judging the utility of the NPI for clinical research, researchers should consider that self-esteem might act as a potential suppressor variable. That is, the relatively low self-esteem of NPD patients could deflate their scores on the NPI."
I bet! Nice analysis there btw. I will keep that in mind when reading it. Some folks have said that about Pete walkers book for cptsd as well and I just bought that one. Guess I’m in for some self isolation when reading these. Lol
I dated 2 quite BPD girls, the first one was cheating on her boyfriend of 5 years and I was her new supply, at the time I didn't know what bpd is and I felt superiority fucking another guy over, she left him for me but I hated her guts and I hated myself and I am still dealing with the guilt since then. The second bpd girl was "single" when I met her, she cheated on me after six months of dating her and I felt it's karma, what I did to the boyfriend happened to me and now I know how he felt. I totally deserve this shit.
You really have to find an internal source of validation, that's the solution to all of our problems actually.
I recommend you this book: https://www.amazon.com/Complex-PTSD-Surviving-RECOVERING-CHILDHOOD/dp/1492871842
It's a very interesting read and it will help you understand where this shit is coming from in the first place
I'm sorry, it's not my job to convince you -- that's your job.
Most therapists are not equipped with the skills/experiences needed to identify and treat childhood trauma survivors.
There are myriad resources (e.g., books, YouTube channels, peer-reviewed literature) that would show you that your parents were emotionally abusive towards you as a child, and that is most likely why you have intimacy issues as an adult.
If you're seriously interested in healing, please read Pete Walker's book, "Complex PTSD: From Surviving to Thriving". It's one of the greatest books I've ever read. You'll enjoy it and find it profoundly eye-opening if you're open to learning about yourself.
I wish you the best <3
I appreciate this post because it says so much about me that I’m scared of or afraid to admit. I recently bought a book for unwanted intrusive thoughts you could try as well.
Just wanted to throw out there that relationships between people with BPD/NPD are extremely common and have complimentary pathologies that keep the bond extremely strong despite it not being a healthy bond.
There are complex reasons for this, other than "supply" and thinking that people with NPD dehumanize people with BPD. In fact, they humanize people with BPD more than the typical neurotically organized folk.
Don't use being triggered as a reason to perpetuate ignorance.
Hi there, these are some good questions/ positive aspirations!
I would suggest one deeper book/video/audio (as you please): The 7 Habits of Highly Effective People; it deals with thoughts/paradigm shifts/ personal victory/ habits changing/ winning with other/ win-win frame of mind etc...
On the practical do this/don't do that, a very good classic is "The Assertiveness Pocketbook" - its graphical and really rich in wisdom- Link
I wish you the very best!
I would be so triggered. Honestly it is probably for the best. If you say you felt they were kind of abusive it is very possible that they don't view people with our disorder in a positive light. I first learned about it through this lady on youtube and she seemed incapable of talking about people with NPD in any light other than abusers and monsters. I felt like shit and hopeless with her verbiage until I looked around and found the reddit community. She was a therapist and I imagine there are hosts of other therapist who have treated enough "victims" of narcissistic abuse that they start to look at people with the disorder in a certain light.
Have you heard of vipassana meditation courses? Could be helpful. Or mindfulness meditation practices as a way to catch yourself in the moment. This is a cool book that might shed some light on mindfulness and therapy.
I do think there is so much in this "disorder" that I don't really even want to change or even think is a problem. This could possibly have something to do with the therapists decision (i am guessing). I have heard that it's hard for us to change because we like who we are essentially. It's a weird circle jerk we got ourselves in.
Homecoming: Reclaiming and Championing Your Inner Child https://www.amazon.com/dp/0553353896/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_glt_fabc_0M501JCMMJ8CTGQ46CCZ This book is an economical option which I find may help, it’s an excellent read !
I´ve read a lot of research reports from Kernberg but never a book.
What books have you read? Any suggestions?
Is this a book you like?
https://www.amazon.com/Borderline-Conditions-Pathological-Narcissism-Master-ebook/dp/B00BZAMWA0
I agree that Greenberg is a bit too dogmatic about her own work and Masterson.
I have actually been talking to her. I think she knows very much and is talented but she has also a bit too big of a "I know best" attitude.
Yeah therapy is a good idea.
Also, I know there are some exercises in dialectical behavioural therapy that are designed to address dissociation. Check out this workbook :
https://www.amazon.com/Dialectical-Behavior-Therapy-Skills-Workbook/dp/1572245131
Great job on being self aware.
I suggest trying dialectical behavioral therapy or DBT. It teaches you to control your emotions. Here's a workbook available on Amazon:
https://www.amazon.com/Dialectical-Behavior-Therapy-Skills-Workbook/dp/1572245131
Yeah, I understand.
But you could do the DBT exercises from the workbook on your own.
​
https://www.amazon.com/Dialectical-Behavior-Therapy-Skills-Workbook/dp/1684034582
RETHINKING NARCISSISM by Craig Malkin, Ph. D
Read the description. The subtitle doesn't do justice to the book's content.
The only way you can ever truly "deal with" anyone is by having healthy boundaries. There's nothing you can do to force awareness on him or make him change his behavior. That's his job, not yours.
What you can do... You can learn about boundaries. I like this definition of boundaries: "How I treat you, how I let you treat me, and how I treat myself." It's from this workbook. You can seek out professional therapy for yourself. You can learn about the drama triangle/empowerment dynamic. Maybe some codependency books would be useful. Support groups. Etc
Take what I say with a grain of salt; I’m a lay person who has done some research, after being seriously abused by my family.
From what I’ve read, narcissism is hard to treat/study because narcissists feel that there is nothing wrong with them. You might just have tendencies, as opposed to NPD. That being said, you have the power to change who you are. It is not easy, nor is it quick, but it is doable.
I would look into the philosophy of Stoicism as a theory guide. The base tenet is: there is the person you are and then there is an ideal version of that person. In an effort to diminish that gap, we become better at taking care of self and others. A one or two sentence blurb cannot describe the value to be gained here.
For practice, I’d look at how to make and break habits, as well as, positive reinforcement. For the latter, there is a book I came across, a while back, called, “Don't Shoot the Dog!: The New Art of Teaching and Training.” It is about more than just the training of animals.
People share many similarities to computers, in that if you learn how to understand the programming language, you can rewrite and rewire your brain. It takes time and commitment, but it is doable.
Also, I don’t know if it’s applicable to your particular scenario, but there is a YouTube channel called, “CharismaOnCommand,” that has helped me be a better communicator with others. It’s something I’d recommend to any human.
Hang in there; life can suck, but there is always a way to improve upon one’s situation. I genuinely wish you all the best in the pursuit of your endeavors.
Sounds like you're slowly finding a handle on things. If something I said clicks with you, feel free to take it to heart, but if it's making you go nuts, don't force it, it may not work for you or it may not even be true at all. I fuck up every day in thought, speech, and action.
Another book you may enjoy if you've never read it is Frankl's Man's Search for Meaning.
Reading this post only leads me to question more whether I experience love in the same way. I was recommended a book by a friend which looks into the categorisation of emotions: How Emotions Are Made: The Secret Life of the Brain It will be interesting to learn if love is both differently experienced at an individual level and differently defined at a cultural level.
My current position is that "love" is:
- Something people learn as a label for a relationship. e.g. It is expected that a person loves their mother, so love is defined subjectively for that person from variations of that emotional experience.
- A label we use to put a positive spin on a more selfish need. e.g. "I feel isolated when person x is not around."
Going a little darker...
- Assume the following statement is true: "Most children love their parents."
- For that to be true, we give the label "love" to the typical emotion a child experiences in their relationship with their parents.
- Most people reduce contact with their parents as they age attending dutifully but not enthusiastically.
So either:
- Love fades over time and is stronger when convenient.
- Children don't love their parents.
I'm going with the fading love being normal. Movies are romantic fiction. Societal pressure leaves us labelling an arbitrary collection of subjective experiences as love. Anyone who bucks the need to conform and question the experience of "love", is labelled as someone who is broken and can't experience it.