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Catholicism's (imo dubious) teachings on hell were a major factor in my decision to leave it. Two books I always recommend (if you want a second opinion):

That All Shall Be Saved - by David Bentley Hart. A book by a famous Eastern Orthodox Christian theologian (a Christian universalist) that explains why eternal inescapable hell doesn't make sense, even from a Christian perspective.
Heaven and Hell: A History of the Afterlife - by Bart Ehrman. A book by a biblical scholar and historian that examines how our modern idea of hell developed over time and was heavily influenced by other cultures and changed by human source. In essence, it is a manmade doctrine.

This guy once got an ask on Curiouscat that sums up right-wing Catholicism as aptly as anything I've ever seen: https://curiouscat.me/ClassicalTheis/post/624687584

ISIS: “okay infidel, before we burn you alive slowly, got any last words?
Classical theist: “good thing I no longer have to see mix raced couples in my commercials anymore.”

Yes! I've got a couple that might be helpful.

You Are Your Own - recovering from religious trauma, really good

Pure: Inside the Evangelical Movement That Shamed a Generation of Young Women and How I Broke Free - explicitly focused on purity culture and how she healed from it

I was given a modesty book as a child that quoted a "study" that men's eyes were INSTANTLY DRAWN TO THE VAGINA when wearing pants.

I’m completely unafraid of hell because it’s an incoherent idea (I think the same about “god” btw). I can’t be afraid of a married bachelor or a round square because I am unable to even imagine a logically coherent representation of those things since they are self-contradictory.

We’ve all been taught to be afraid of hell since early childhood, but just like we’re told not to look directly at the sun, we weren’t encouraged to think clearly about the details of hell, were we? That’s because there aren’t any, and attempts to form a coherent description of hell that is consonant with “god’s” supposed nature, scripture, and logic always fail.

David Bentley Hart, possibly the most prominent English-speaking theologian working today, wrote an entire book about how he thinks the eternal conscious torment version of hell not only doesn’t exist but can’t exist. Further, he argues that if any form of Christianity truly teaches this, it’s a sign that form of Christianity is false.

I’m personally biased to think that all forms of Christianity, indeed all human religions are false in the sense that none of them fully and accurately describe reality…but anyway maybe this theologian is right? If he is right, then you have nothing to fear. Be a good person, do your best, the “god” this guy believes in is not a sadistic, evil maniac like the Catholic “god.”

Here’s a good discussion: Forged: Writing in the Name of God--Why the Bible's Authors Are Not Who We Think They Are https://www.amazon.com/dp/B004IWR3JW/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_tai_iAP2FbG2JTHG7?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1

Here’s another good discussion about credibility of Scriptures: Misquoting Jesus: The Story Behind Who Changed the Bible and Why https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000SEGJF8/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_tai_oGP2Fb1TJ0V3N?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1

According to one survey

> About 39 percent of Catholics reported attending church in any given week, according to data collected between 2014 and 2017 and released Monday. That’s down from 45 percent between 2005 and 2008. And it’s a huge drop from 1955 when Gallup polling reported weekly Mass attendance at 75 percent.

> Even older Catholics, who are typically more religiously committed than younger ones, have stopped going to church as often. For the first time, Gallup found that no more than 49 percent of Catholics in any age group reported attending church in the past week

I guess the Church uses the number of baptized Catholics to get the biggest number, but the people in the pews tells a much different story.

Link to a Google Doc I found this a while ago on /r/atheism. It's not directed at Catholicism, but it's pretty articulate...though lengthy...

I used to have two picture books I adored as a child. I now read them to my children.

D'Aulaire's Book of Greek Myths as well as their Book of Norse Myths are beautifully illustrated and just such fun to read.

The Bible is part of that tradition of the West. When you think about it, saints are really just old Greek and Norse gods clothed in Christian tunics and pretentions.

As far as the Bible, I don't think there is anything wrong with it as far as reading it in context. The English in the King James Bible is gorgeous (though I prefer Sir Lancelot Brenton's translation of the Septuagint). And whether we all like it or not it is part of Western literature and tradition. I am not sure I would totally toss it in the waste bin.

But then again there are some people around here who think that everyone should have a tradition except Westerners.

I know this will come off as kind of shill-y, so I beg your forbearance, but I actually wrote a book specifically demolishing Feser and his Thomistic system. It's targeted towards laymen, and I sincerely believe it's both the most effective takedown of Feser's apologetics in a single (relatively) concise monograph. Check it out on Amazon, and the ebook is quite cheap.

https://www.amazon.com/Unnecessary-Science-Critical-Analysis-Natural-ebook/dp/B08M68LP8F/

I critically examine Thomism's religious, moral, and lastly metaphysical claims, and find significant errors and unneeded assumptions in all of them. I'd be willing to bet it would assuage at least a few of your doubts, friend!

That's a great book! Please forgive me for a bit of self-promotion, but I'm a friend of the OP and I don't think he'd mind--I actually wrote a book myself, "The Unnecessary Science: A Critical Analysis of Natural Law Theory" that relies on Aristotle and the Theology of the Living Immortals a bit in chapter two--I use Bodeus' work to demonstrate that Feser's Aristotelian arguments can defend classic Hellenic paganism (among other things) as easily as his preferred Catholicism. The OP's recommended my book before (it's in his list of helpful anti-Thomist resources: https://spirit-salamander.blogspot.com/2019/08/all-round-critique-of-thomistic-natural.html ) so I think you might like it :)

<em>Constantine's Sword</em> is a very good read if you want to know about Catholic/Christian Antisemitism/Catholic Institutionalized Violence. The guy that wrote it is a liberal/Progressive Catholic and a former priest.

https://www.amazon.com/Chef-mate-Bueno-White-Queso-Cheese/dp/B00I2F4I08/ref=sxin_15_pa_sp_search_thematic_sspa?content-id=amzn1.sym.9c246b91-3d49-4e6c-8ff6-5b6e9a100bd4%3Aamzn1.sym.9c246b91-3d49-4e6c-8ff6-5b6e9a100bd4&crid=1PEJGP4T9R7NU&cv...

https://www.amazon.com/Cavanagh-Altar-Bread-Whole-Container/dp/B003AK81SK/ref=asc\_df\_B003AK81SK/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=312174227435&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=1685258924849125587&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&amp...

You might be interested in The Turning podcast largely based on one former sister's memoir. In my opinion the podcast was better but the memoir is also good.

An Unquenchable Thirst: A Memoir https://www.amazon.com/dp/B004J4WKIS?ref=ppx_pop_mob_ap_share

My takeaway is that the order is a cult and exercises undue influence.

Yeah that's just rough. Not sure how close you are with your family, but putting some distance from my and my wife's family helped us a bit (they're 4-5 hours away by car).

You might also want to check out this book, Raising Freethinkers - a practical guide for parenting beyond belief. We haven't been able to apply a ton of the content yet (our first kid is only 1.5 years old), but it was a good read. https://www.amazon.com/Raising-Freethinkers-Practical-Parenting-Beyond/dp/0814410960

Why would you be angry at Therese, though? She's a dead 25 year old girl from the 1800s. If anything, she was a victim of her environment -- religious nuts for parents and a very sheltered upbringing. She hardly had any education. She was homeschooled until like middle school age and then had to leave school due to bullying at ~12.

Yeah, she was spoiled, coddled, and had an ego. That is undeniable. She asked her aunt (I think) to send her fur-lined boots, because it was cold at the convent. She told her priest during confession that she wanted to be greater than St. Teresa of Avila. She also didn't keep a confessor or anything. She thought she knew better and guided herself. This was a point brought up by the devil's advocate at her canonization process: she was arrogant. I think her Little Way was just her ego's attempt to compensate for her uneventful life, not some deep spirituality.

But, anyway, she was rational, not hysterical. She brought up her questions about the faith to a priest, and he told her not to think about her questions, saying, I think, that it was dangerous to think about those things, which made her mad.

Anyway, read this books if you want to know more.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0670031488/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Yes, they are undoubtedly Jews, and apparently in good standing with Jerusalem, at a time when no temples to Yahweh outside of Jerusalem should even exist. That's why the conundrum happened.

Here's the thing on Amazon.

Two books really helped me to get over the fear of hell. Copy-pasted response below:

That All Shall Be Saved - by David Bentley Hart. A book by a famous Eastern Orthodox Christian (a Christian universalist) that does an excellent job of demonstrating why the idea of eternal hell is incompatible with mainstream Christianity, from a rational and philosophical perspective. So even if Christianity were true, hell couldn't possibly be. I have yet to see a comprehensive rebuttal to this book that actually engages with its arguments. I believe its arguments are rock-solid.
Heaven and Hell: A History of the Afterlife - by Bart Ehrman. A book by a biblical scholar and historian that examines how our modern idea of hell developed over time and was heavily influenced by other cultures and changed by human source. In essence, it is a manmade doctrine.I truly believe the doctrine of hell crumbles under its own weight. Yet I understand and empathize with how hard it is to break the indoctrination of it. Hopefully these can help you. I wish you the best.

It's considered the "near occasion of sin." Especially if you're staying in the same bed. Because hanky-panky can happen. And our sexual mores have more to do with the hyper-zealotry of the Reformation, the Counter-Reformation, and the various witch-hunts and inquisitions that happened around that time. These were made even more strict as a result of the inter-denominational conflicts in England.

Try pointing out that co-habitation was NORMATIVE for much of Christian history, and that the entire reason that priests needed to officiate at marriages is because people would cohabitate for *YEARS* without a formal marriage taking place. Then, when one party wanted to leave, they could just claim, "I was never married to begin with." It was also COMMON for people to refuse to get married until the woman was pregnant (and so proving she could have children to begin with). (CYS here)

Tl;dr — the RCC's current obsession with sex, especially in the Americas, is a product of PROTESTANTISM, not historic Christianity.

Hell is a nightmarish doctrine. Here's two books that helped me overcome fear of it, maybe they will help you:

That All Shall Be Saved - by David Bentley Hart. A book by a famous Eastern Orthodox Christian (a Christian universalist) that does an excellent job of demonstrating why the idea of eternal hell is incompatible with mainstream Christianity, from a rational and philosophical perspective. So even if Christianity were true, hell couldn't possibly be.
Heaven and Hell: A History of the Afterlife - by Bart Ehrman. A book by a biblical scholar and historian that examines how our modern idea of hell developed over time and was heavily influenced by other cultures and changed by human source. In essence, it is a manmade doctrine.

Hopefully these can help you. I empathize with how hard it is to break the spell of hell. I wish you the best.

Other than Bart Ehrman, one book that really helped me to get over the guilt was Helping Jesus Fulfill Prophecy by Robert Miller.

Basically points out all the ways the Gospel writers twist scriptures and ignore context in order to make it seems like Jesus fulfilled prophecies, in many cases it's hard to conclude that it wasn't willful deception.

Once you realize the authors of the Bible were relying on deception to promote their beliefs, it becomes really hard to take any of their other claims seriously. Surely an actual God could have done better.

Because Christianity started out as an apocalyptic cult. Apocalypticism gives it a sense of urgency. And that is great for mobilization.

Of course, Christianity doesn't really make sense today if you really think about it. Paul believed Jesus was going to return the next week, and advised accordingly. Gospels too give a message that the world is at the precipice of final end, and thus to disregard family, material wellbeing, justice, and everything else that's important for the life in the world which is supposed to end any day now (Truly I tell you, you will not reach all the towns of Israel before the Son of Man comes). Since Jesus failed to return, that should've been the end of it, but apparently, when cult predictions fail, they start proselytizing.

I'll post something that I've posted in the past on this issue:

>I got over my fear of eternal inescapable hell by realizing that it contradicts major tenets of traditional Christianity. In other words, even if Christianity were true, hell can't be. It is 100% a manmade idea.
>
>There's a book by David Bentley Hart, "That All Shall Be Saved," where he absolutely eviscerates the idea of eternal inescapable hell on logical grounds, even from a Christian perspective. I've read dozens of reviews of his book by Christians who preach eternal hell, and nearly all but ~two misrepresent his arguments or focus entirely on his tone. His arguments, in my opinion, are simply unassailable - they can't be answered. For this reason, the book is extremely popular in the r/ChristianUniversalism subreddit. If you want to see the idea of hell take a beating from a Christian perspective, I highly recommend it.
>
>I'm also currently reading a book by Bart Ehrman called "Heaven and Hell: A History of the Afterlife" which traces the ideas about hell through human history and shows that they developed organically over time, from pagan origins that started out very differently, rather than being some divine revelation.

I, too, occasionally have said fear. As someone with anxiety, I can often tell that certain fears I have are illogical and can think my way out of them. Regarding hell, I find it helpful to explore all of the different afterlife scenarios, hells, and heavens that human religious cultures have come up with. It really helps one to recognize that these are purely manmade concepts.

I just happened to have been listening to a relevant podcast on SEAN Carroll's Mindscape show:

Episode 48: Marq de Villiers on Hell and Damnation by Sean Carroll's Mindscape: Science, Society, Philosophy, Culture, Arts, and Ideas https://player.fm/1wLvCd #nowplaying

The discussion is all about the invention of hell and various cultural concepts of hell and similar post-mortem places or conditions.

I hope this is helpful. Cheers.

>I still intensely fear Hell/purgatory

Regarding the fear of hell, I'll post something that I've posted in the past on this issue:

I'm also currently reading a book by Bart Ehrman called "Heaven and Hell: A History of the Afterlife" which traces the ideas about hell through human history and shows that they developed organically over time, from pagan origins that started out very differently, rather than being some divine revelation.

Two books for me that were majorly impactful were:

That All Shall be Saved by David Bentley Hart. This book deals a devastating blow to the idea that hell is eternal and inescapable, in contrast to what Catholicism teaches.
How Jesus Became God by Bart Ehrman. This book introduced me to the world of biblical scholarship and provided a second opinion on how Christianity got started.

>get them out now

Here's one I found very recently on Amazon. The reviews just amaze me.

https://www.amazon.com/Get-Out-Now-Should-Public/dp/1621576469/ref=cm_cr_arp_d_product_top?ie=UTF8

Just some of the reviews:

"And another common objection: ‘Shouldn’t my kids let their light shine in pagan schools?’ A few mature and spiritually solid children might be able to do this, but most will likely be won over to the dark side. There is nothing amiss in protecting children from the ungodly and immoral agendas being pushed in schools. "

I never realized our schools were "pagan." Guess I missed all those statues of Thor and Loki on school grounds.

This one is my favorite and says the quiet parts out loud:

The second section of the book covers a host of other issues that might be of equal or greater concern. One chapter addresses the undermining of faith that takes place in schools, particularly with the elevation of science as the source of truth. Another chapter reveals how schools have shifted from a primary goal of raising patriotic citizens in favor of encouraging activism with a global emphasis.

Science is bad. Nationalism is good; forget about global issues.

Hey there. It's a complicated and, in many ways, unfortunate story, but to put it succinctly there is no doctrine of hell as a place of eternal conscious torment for at least the first two to three centuries of the Church. Very early one many simply did not think about hell because early Christians believed that Christ would return very quickly. When more through discussion about afterlife occurred, the majority position was actually universalism for a good portion of the first 500 years, with annihilationism as a close second. The contemporary notion of hell was actually the minority view for a while and only became very popular, and essentially the dominant teaching, because of Augustine. The history is very complicated, but this is a summary. If you are interested in reading further, I'll share a great scholarly book on the topic: https://www.amazon.com/Larger-Hope-Christian-Beginnings-Norwich/dp/1498287980. I'm a universalist, by the way, as I think it follows from Christian metaphysics, so I hope you don't worry about hell. I don't your experience with the Church but if it was poor, I'm sorry about that. If you ever rejoin the Church or simply consider being religious again, do so out of love not fear for there is nothing to fear. God Bless :)

New Testament scholar from UNC. He's one of the leading NT textual critics in the world. If you go to almost any college in the US and take an introduction to the New Testament course, you will most likely be asked to purchase his Introduction to the NT textbook. He's a former fundamentalist that studied under the famous NT scholar Bruce Metzger. He's a mainstream scholar, so he doesn't hold crazy, fringe opinions. He pisses off Mythicists because he is an agnostic atheist and tells them that they are wrong and that Jesus existed. He has a lot of popular books out there for the lay crowd that explains what biblical criticism has known for almost two centuries but has failed to reach the pews. This information is usually shocking to the uninformed.

I would read all of his books, but if I could recommend one, it's his book on forgeries in the New Testament for the lay audience. It is based upon his scholarly work on forgeries, which you can also buy on Amazon if you want to try to understand it. Basically, it is a book about how forgeries were commonplace and repudiated in the ancient world. If you don't know, for example, 7 of Paul's 14 letters that appear in the New Testament are considered fake by the majority of scholars and have been for a long time. And more (1 and 2 Peter, e.g.)

https://www.amazon.com/Forged-Bart-D-Ehrman-audiobook/dp/B004T7AKUA/

I agree that section needs to be tightened up... but uh an eternity is by definition infinite from a starting point, it is right there in the dictionary definition;

> eternity

https://www.wordnik.com/words/eternity

I am very aware that the Catholics love their eternities, but if you look the catechism it states that an eternity is forever, thus it is an infinite amount of time from a point. Endless, Eternity, forever it is all an infinite amount of time going forward.

Op, this sucks. And is unfortunately not a winnable scenario in the short term.

Might I suggest you try to find some counseling services in your local area that can maybe help you out? I'm hoping something that's LGBTQ friendly. What I would focus on is maybe gaining from them some communication strategies on this topic. Word choice and approach can go a long way to defusing some of this.

The concepts of stoicism (managing stressful situations) and street epistemology (changing minds through conversation) come to mind (there are subs on reddit for these topics that can maybe help out).

An article I recently found on pocket provides an example of how word choices can help diffuse hard discussions. This may only help if you're native English speakers though.

My other advice would be to maybe reach out to her pastor/priest. Sit down with him (funny, almost added "/her"), and explain your family situation. Explain in simple terms that you're not here to receive judgement on your sibling's lifestyle, but some help on the genetic and biological aspects of sexual attraction. Officially, the church these days no longer thinks that gayness is a learned trait. Maybe her priest is progressive and understands that. Maybe you'll get lucky and he'll be able to help diffuse the situation. The authority of the church can sometimes do wonders to correct some toxic behaviors.

Finally, if you do stray into this topic with your parents, remember, it will help you nothing to attack their beliefs and opinions, rather gently prod the sources of these beliefs and opinions and try to show how the error may lay in how they learned what they believe, not in their beliefs. (street epistemology in a nutshell).

I hope this helps.

Sounds like she needs a professional and medication for the anxiety.

But if she reads or likes YouTube, get her to watch NT scholar Dr. Bart Ehrman's content on YouTube or buy his books.

In particular, Ehrman's books on forgery in the New Testament should convince most people that the Bible is not inspired, which is a core doctrine of Christianity. The main thesis of his work is that forgeries were being produced constantly in early Christian times, and these forgeries also appear in the Bible itself. For example, the majority of New Testament scholars believe that 7 of Paul's letters are fake. They weren't written by Paul and even try to contradict other letters that appear in the New Testament. And more -- 11 out of the 27 books of the NT are probably forged documents. And guess what? Scholars have believed/suspected that the letters were fake more or less for 100-200 years. It's old news, but most people in the pews don't know these things.

https://www.amazon.com/Forged-Writing-God-Why-Bibles-Authors/dp/0062012622 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PF3nu4cYC78

That’s a good read and hilarious.

A good (related) book to read about sex addiction is Sex Addiction: A Critical History. It’s a really American influenced thing, there’s not widespread sex addiction in other parts of the world. Our modern notion of the concept got started in the early 1980’s, but still based on medieval religious thinking, just updated language.

Virtue is the sole good.

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