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In "Breaking Free of the Co-Dependency Trap" there's reference to the fact that society is built upon codependence and that more than 8-in-10 people are codependent, but that fewer than 1-in-100 work on it. That's not a measure of severity, of course, but to answer your question - everyone deserves connection, love, and relationships. That you can be real about who you are instead of the toxic person you behaved like by default is a plus, not a drawback.
Freud died long ago. Mankind's understanding of the human psyche AND the human body have come way far from 'inheritable neuroticism'. That, no disrespect here, is the quackery –one the whole world's believed for far too long now.
​
This is not a cherry-picked study, and i encourage you please do some (any) research around this, origins, context, how it ties to LOTS of previous research and above all to the inevitable conclusions of 50 years of trauma research out of integrating results from multiple scientific disciplines; you'll find too many 'cherry-picked`' studies pointing in the same direction:
And, most importantly, check it out against your own experience, your own body, mind, history.
I wish someone had told me all this a long time ago.
​
I cannot recommend Pete Walkers cptsd book enough if you had an abusive household and also struggling with codependency. Really enlightening and validating. http://the-eye.eu/public/Psychedelics/Psychedelic%20Praxis%20Library%203.0/Collections%20by%20Subject/Neurodiversity%20%26%20Traumacentric%20Therapy/PTSD%20%26%20Dissociation/2013%20-%20Pete%20Walker%20-%20Complex%20PTSD%20-%20From%20Surviving%20t...
C-PTSD from Surviving to Thriving by Pete Walker and Homecoming by John Bradshaw.
🙏💜🙏
There’s a famous book called: Complex PTSD From Surviving to Thriving; by Pete Walker. If you download a sample you can see the chapter list. He describes in fantastic detail how to overcome emotional reactivity. It’s one of those books where you end up having so many epiphanies that you want to buy it for all of your friends - or strangers on Reddit!
I feel this way about a lot of things. Anxiety, depression, codependency. All they do is make me sad but without them I don't know who I would be. Being anxious, depressed and codependent is familiar to me, like a super shitty old friend.
I think that the highs can still happen without codependency. Maybe they wouldn't feel as manic, but that just means it's more real. For me, the very high highs never feel real to me. There's something about the over-the-top happiness that seems fake, especially because it has always happened really early in relationships for me. Probably, without codependency, the highs would be more grounded in reality. Real love is still beautiful even if it might not be as addictive. I think it's all about finding someone who you genuinely care about who genuinely cares about you even without the craziness or drama.
Also, I saw you history and I'm sorry you're going through this. It really sucks. I struggle with this too but want to say that every day you have to remind yourself you don't want to be with someone who doesn't want to be with you (or isn't in a good place to be with you). You deserve to be with someone who makes your life easier. Maybe read this and other things like it.
To reiterate with the others who commented, you are not alone. If you are in grad school, I'm sure there are some resources that you can utilize. Like a counselor or even students that are training to become counselors. They have to have a licensed professional sit in on the session, so it would be like a two for one. And they offer a deep discount if money is a problem.
If you are looking for friends, I think Meetup.com is a great way to start. They have groups based off your interest and can help with any anxiety with groups since there is something else to focus on instead of just the social aspect.
Can you talk to your work about taking on less responsibility? Having some communication with your managers can at least help you understand if there is some leeway. You never know unless you ask and the worst they can say is no.
You can also reach out to this hotline at anytime if you feel like harming yourself - 1-800-273-8255. If you aren't in the US, just google the national suicide hotline and they will help you with immediate assistance.
i guess i'm unfamiliar with the terminology. I guess i would be the codependent and my mother would be whatever the counterpart is to that... I read this article talking about codependent parents and figured that was the correct term for her since it is the one they used. http://hubpages.com/health/8-Signs-You-May-Have-a-Codependent-Parent
I'll give it a look, thank you!
1) CoDA meetings aren't what they used to be, for sure.
2) Get this book. We used to use it in CoDA Step meetings years ago. I may not be Beattie's biggest fan, but this one and The Language of Letting Go are about as good as it gets in recovery from codependency aside from Pia Mellody's books.
I'm still working on it, but I'm much better than I used to be. When I find myself getting anxious or falling into unhealthy thought patterns about my friends, I try to keep myself as grounded in reality as possible. I do this by reminding myself, as many times as I need to, that I am feeling anxious and that the thoughts I am having are coming from a place of fear. Fear of abandonment, mostly. When I am able to identify why I'm feeling anxious, and separate that from the person I'm texting with, that helps me stay calm.
Another thing that helps me is to remind myself of this person's past behavior - so in the instance of my friend, she is a slow texter but she always gets back to me, even if it takes a while. When I start feeling those anxiety thoughts creeping into my head, I remind myself that my friend is reliable, she is a safe person, and she has a right to exist without checking her phone every 5 minutes.
Lastly, educating myself on codependent behaviors and the root cause of them has been the biggest help for me overall. Just being more aware of my behaviors and my emotions, instead of just acting out all of the time like I did before, has made me feel more in control of myself and has helped me feel more comfortable in my relationships with other people. And being honest with myself about why I feel the way I do - why I fear abandonment, or disapproval, or feel the need to be a people pleaser - has allowed me to work on my core issues, which in turn has helped reduce my codependent behaviors. I read Codependent No More by Melody Beattie and had an amazing EUREKA! moment when I recognized myself in nearly every word she wrote https://www.amazon.com/Codependent-No-More-Controlling-Yourself/dp/0894864025
I didn’t work through the entire thing, but I started it and liked the exercises I did.
The Codependency Workbook: Simple Practices for Developing and Maintaining Your Independence https://www.amazon.com/dp/1646114310/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_glt_fabc_XRR63F6FSM6KKJXVNRGX?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1
Maybe this fits around reparenting as it helped me find better space for me around how my parent treats me.
Adult Children of Emotionally immature parents
My trauma therapist recommended it after I asked for resources around be there better for myself. It’s shorter and has good explanations & antidotes to further detail the point. Might help as well since I noticed many of the 4 types of emotionally immature postures in many of my exes /friends that I struggled with. Plus the book gives a good reframe to about struggling with different types of immature behavior.
Best luck and all the best!
Here’s a link to the book I mentioned - Adult Children of Emotionally Immature Parents: How to Heal from Distant, Rejecting, or Self-Involved Parents https://www.amazon.com/dp/1626251703/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_glt_fabc_S567NVJVSPV1CWAC7GAG
Finding oneself is never-ending. The "self" is not a static or permanent thing. It is always morphing; always a product of what is happening Right Now.
So I continue to use the tool kit of <strong>Choiceless Awareness</strong> to see, hear, feel and sense whatever "self" I have become in the present context.
Read this life-changing book? (One could do worse, for sure.)
I can relate to seeing all my past experiences in a new light. It keeps happening and changing and growing as you learn and grow! Everyday i look forward to the next with excitement and awe of what I would learn next about myself and how it would improve my relationships. It's in the little moments where trying a skill works or where you have the ability to stop and make a different decision. And long term watching my whole world grow bigger and brighter.
Brand new: Iron Legacy: Childhood Trauma and Adult Transformation. Lots of material on specific boundary issues and what to do about them, including a guided boundary meditation.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07N83Z1ZG/ref=dbs_a_def_rwt_hsch_vapi_tkin_p1_i0
While it didn't fix me, I found this book really helpful to understanding my attachment strategies and how it affects my relationships.
Oh I have been here...sooooo many times. I've been married now for 25 years and it was decades of this pattern for us.
Eventually I realized that he has very little self-compassion. And I started focusing on that and thinking about how different I am in that way. I have a lot of self-compassion and can easily forgive myself when I screw up. He is more of a perfectionist overall, and he would rather avoid thinking about a mistake because it feels so bad for him. He doesn't have an internal voice that says "It's okay, you didn't mean to" or "It's okay, you'll learn from this and everyone makes mistakes".
Also, some people can get caught in a "win-lose" mindset during conflict. They feel like in any conflict, someone is at fault and must be blamed. My husband saw conflict this way, and used to always say to me: "You always have to win". He didn't believe me when I said I didn't care about "winning" and that there is no one to "blame" and I just want him to understand me, and to understand him.
When I spent a little more time getting inside his head, then I could see how painful this mindset must be. I was so tired of reassuring him when I was the one who was hurt, but now it's so much better.
Also got him a book called "I Hear You" because it teaches how to validate someone. It helps change his mindset from "I did something wrong, I am to blame" to him focusing on "I can make her feel better in this moment".
https://www.amazon.com/Hear-You-Surprisingly-Extraordinary-Relationships-ebook/dp/B071K4MWMK
I hope that helps
"Will I Ever Be Good Enough?" is written for folks like us with the particular horror of maternal abuse.
It talks about several abusive and dysfunctional styles of maternal abuse, including this "you have to be my best friend and helper" one. I was also raised that way, my abuser is now dead thankfully. It's frighteningly common, and incredibly insideous.
I read a really good book lately that really broke down a lot of the questions you're asking. It's Adult children of emotionally immature parents by Lindsay Gibson
She really breaks down why codependency starts the way it does. When you were a child you were probably trained to suppress your authentic self. Because anytime you acted out because your needs weren't being met you were punished. So you learned that you couldn't be cared for if you were being yourself. And now some weird transactional love economy has been built up in your mind. It's going to take a bit to undo that programming, but it is possible!
Just thought I’d share some of the top reviews for The Body Keeps the Score:
> This book was recommended to me by several people and I’m not entirely certain why. It’s difficult to read, partially because of the content, partially because it reads a bit like an old blowhard that wants to brag about his work with traumatized individuals. What I find most concerning though is the way he describes female patients as “gorgeous” or comments on their bodies with descriptors like “slender”. I can see this having value from an academic perspective but for an every day person... I’d rather read Pete Walkers book.
> I'm not sure why this book has the positive reviews it does. Aside from the various forms of "science" it suggests, it is full of detailed accounts of sexual assault and rape completely unnecessary to the context of the book. If you are a survivor of rape, sexual assault, or domestic violence I would avoid this book at all costs. There are many good therapies available not touched on in this book, you're better to talk to your doctor.
> Probably an excellent book but he talks about the research done on defenseless dogs trapped in a cage that are repeatedly shocked. I am a dog/animal lover and this is such an atrocity. When will this cruelty stop? 😢
> At no point was I prepared to open this book and amongst the first pages be slapped with a sob story about a Vietnam vet who admitted to murdering children and raping a young girl in retaliation for losing fellow soldiers on the crap show battlefield that was Vietnam. This ruined the entire book for me, and I have been made aware that there are better books out there for people who actually have PTSD and anxiety, and do not sympathize with a murdering rapist. And side note: at no point in history or future will the murder and rape of innocents be justifiable, even in foolish wars.
M38. I've found it to be a rudderless feeling.
It's not the shortest book (there's an Audible version that I've been listening to)... but it is pretty validating if you're feeling alone, or feeling unable to open up to anyone in your life because of the curse of, "the truth is always somewhere in the middle", which - as this book lays out with amazing clarity - is one of the most invalidating and demeaning experiences an abuse victim can experience, and one that people who have been isolated and targeted by narcs, often experience from people they thought they could trust: friends, family members, family councilors (who are often particularly fixated on "personal responsibility" and meeting in the middle). The writer is very compassionate and understanding, still I've found it to be a tough read simply because sometimes I'm still hoping I can snap my fingers and put it all behind me. I'm almost done, though, and it definitely has been a crucially validating read, for my particular experience at least.
You are not dumb. Codependency usually alludes most of us until we are in our adulthood and can finally see the pattern put together. So don't be hard on yourself. You are here, seeking answers and you want to live out your best life - it's really commendable to face your codependency.
It can be daunting at first too. But you will soon see that undoing decades of programming takes patience and compassion with yourself.
Some books/resources that have helped me: 12 step coda workbook: https://www.amazon.com/Twelve-Steps-Traditions-Workbook-Co-Dependents/dp/B002DWBJ62/ref=sr_1_4?keywords=codependent+12+steps&qid=1660409020&sr=8-4
Breaking Free workbook and the book it accompanies: Facing Codependency by Pia Mellody (I go the audible version)
I did IFS (internal family system) with my therapist. I got in touch with the part of me that is husstling so hard for love and got to know that part and appreciated it for what's it's trying to do, which was to protect me. At its root, codepedency is just a set of behaviors that was learned and ingrained along the way, a survival tool. Now we're just having to learn new toolkits of how to have a healthier relationship with yourselves. And it starts with: "how am I feeling right now? And what do I need?"
Letting Go: The Pathway of Surrender by David Hawkins, MD (He also wrote Power vs. Force, a very good read if not a bit dense)
He balances neurology, spirituality, and psychology in a pretty epic way.
We didn't pick out parents. No loyalty required if they did not care for you properly, causing trauma. The sooner you love this mind you have that is fighting for your authentic survival, the sooner you can be free of this biological evolutionary guilt.
Focus on making your carefree childhood self content ( i hope you have some joyful memories)
It was their role too nurture you, not vice versa. Walk away excited too be free!
I have done this and my sister too! Freedom!
I found help with Lynn Matti's book 5 weeks too self-confidence. It is simple and helped me focus on moving forward with boundaries.
Also she has a podcast Sobersoul that feeds the authentic courageous boundary making me. It's hard, but the more we admire humans who are kind and empathetic truly, we can move away from guilt around those we are "supposed" to loved and respect because roles we didn't pick: son, daughter etc....
I also think developing a love relationship with your whimsical young self prior to the programming and neglect will be key.
Hello, I am a codependent. I discovered codependency a few months ago.
I read these books: “codependent no more” by melody beattie “Facing Codependency” by pia mellody and “betrayal bond” by patrick carnes.
I started attending www.coDa.org these meetings are free and anonymous, full of others like you and me, people working on healing their codependency, having healthier relationships with themselves and others. And I started working through the 12-steps workbook freeing myself from codependency: https://www.amazon.com/Twelve-Steps-Traditions-Workbook-Co-Dependents/dp/B002DWBJ62
These steps I took have opened me up, and started to heal me from my core wounds, the origins of my codependency. I am a work in progress, but lately feel lighter and more in-tune to myself. I wish you well on your recovery journey.
If you are looking for resources, can I suggest a tangent? A different way of thinking about it... Where codependency, stonewalling and self isolation come from emotional stuckness, and attachment styles are symptoms.
Not diagnosing, but the way I approach it is that I don't need a diagnosis, I need answers and tools to help me understand myself better and therefore be able to understand my behaviours and the thoughts / emotions that drive them.
Look up CPTSD
It's a difficult label, but not so scary when you get past it.
Highly recommend Pete Walker's book https://www.amazon.com.au/Complex-Ptsd-Pete-Walker/dp/1492871842
On youtube Gabor Mate Richard Brannon Tim Fletcher
Cptsd on reddit
I'm also looking into shadow work- looking at the experiences from childhood that caused me to reject parts of myself and started my fawn response when stressed. Which then I took into adulthood as people pleasing and codependency
It's hard work. It's uncomfortable. It's not a quick fix. You need to be gentle and patient with yourself.
You got this.
If you asked your preferred psychotherapy lecturer "is A or B a better way to process relationships?" do you think they'd answer with your non-answering answer? I hope to god not. That'd be how to create a bad relationship.
I've been neither condescending notsr hostile (nor her therapist) I've just seen through the bobbins.
Anyway, feel free to educate yourself on the kinds of therapy you've never met. Here's one:
https://www.amazon.com/dp/0916990036/ref=cm_sw_em_r_mt_dp_0YV1JX9N9J3B8M4NW9RKS
Best of luck in your training.
There is a work book I got. It was also a nice way to start journaling.
The Self-Love Workbook: A Life-Changing Guide to Boost Self-Esteem, Recognize Your Worth and Find Genuine Happiness (Self-Love Books) https://www.amazon.com/dp/1612438660/ref=cm_sw_r_apan_glt_fabc_3W6NNRS7STA7VNNP0A00?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1
I was also like this after my break up but I think since then I've grown a lot from my codependency. I recommend trying to do small things. Like start with a small walk or volunteering somewhere. I've also found that Meetup.com is a great place to see what's going on in your town. Even if you don't want to go with people, just to see where the activities are is a really good resource. For instance I found some really cool hiking places where I live that I didn't know about before. I'm also on a few sports leagues too around town that lets me tune everything out by focusing on a goal as well as giving me a sense of community being with my team.
It starts with small wins. You walked a block, that's huge! You should treat yourself to a show. You went somewhere new/ tried something new? That's amazing, you are amazing! Do something you've loved before your relationship even started.
Life is really just finding out what you don't like and narrowing it down until you find something you are like "hey, this is actually what I need right now". Think of it as dating yourself and taking yourself on activities. It's a fun first date activities that may or may not work out, but hey, you tried it! Treat yo self!
I am no means an expert, but these are some of the tid bits that work for me right now. I really hope this helps!
I'm so sorry you are/were going through this. I was staying too long in a toxic relationship too. The longer I stayed, the more embarrassed I got. I didn't want to share it with anyone because I knew that what I was doing was not healthy at all. I was ashamed to admit it though...
I don't know if you were looking for advice or rather for support/feeling that you can ralate.
If advice, I'd suggest starting with reading a book by Melody Beattie "Codependent No More". This is so helpful! I started with this book when I hit my pitch bottom and realized that something has to change. I was fed up. I was sick of myself.
If you were seeking to relate, I have recorded a short YouTube video to share my story and help other codependents: Codependency: How to Detach and Stop Controlling | Codependency Healing"
My friend recommended this book to me for exactly this. I haven’t read it yet but she found it hugely helpful.
I’ve done so much reading in my recovery and nothing compares to this book in terms of codependency and SLAA stuff:
https://www.amazon.com/Inner-Bonding-Becoming-Loving-Adult/dp/0062507109/ref=nodl_
If you identify as a woman, you might like the workbook I’m working through right now. It’s been really helpful for me…it gave me a place to begin when I really had no idea how.
Self-Love Workbook for Women: Release Self-Doubt, Build Self-Compassion, and Embrace Who You Are by Megan Logan, MSW, LCSW
https://www.amazon.com/dp/1647397294/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_glt_fabc_SXHCYP2JZ850CA29Q0P5
I highly recommend Adult Children of Emotionally Immature Parents as well!
Remember that this is the worst it will be. Tomorrow will be a tiny bit better. And the day after will be a tiny bit better than that. It will be so gradual, but it starts to hurt a little less everyday. You've already been through the absolute worst part and you made it.
You won't want to do your hobbies, you won't want to try new things, you won't want to be with friends. But you have to try and try hard. Those things will help you, even if it doesn't seem like it right now. I didn't want to do those things either, but I can tell you that they helped. It's OK to rely on distractions for a little while to get you through the next few days. Buy that new game, get that disney+ subscription, get some takeout food. But don't turn to self destructive distractions or rely on distractions forever. Processing a break up just takes time.
Please don't be alone right now if you're having dark thoughts. Ask a friend to skype call. If you don't want close contact right now, try this: https://www.7cups.com/
I've used this before and found it helpful. They have a free 24/7 anonymous chat with a listener that you can talk to. It's not a therapist so they won't make suggestions or anything like that. It's like having a friend listen to you.
It gets better, it really does. The night is always darkest just before the dawning.
I recommend searching via:
- https://libgen.is/ (use search keywords like codependent, codependency)
- torrent (make sure you use Brave browser because sites like ThePirateBay have a lot of popups)
I recommend the following books
- Melody Beattie - Codependent No More: How to Stop Controlling Others and Start Caring for Yourself
- Zak Mucha - Emotional Abuse: A manual for self-defense
- Ross Rosenberg - The Human Magnet Syndrome: Why We Love People Who Hurt Us
- Susan Forward - Toxic Parents: Overcoming Their Hurtful Legacy and Reclaiming Your Life
- Susan Forward - Mothers Who Can't Love: A Healing Guide for Daughters
- Henry Cloud - Boundaries: When to Say Yes, How to Say No to Take Control of Your Life
- Margalis Fjelstad - Stop Caretaking the Borderline or Narcissist: How to End the Drama and Get On with Life
- Mark Wolynn - It Didn't Start With You: The Mystery of Inherited Trauma
- George K. Simon - In Sheep's Clothing: Understanding and Dealing with Manipulative People
For wives/girlfriends of abusive men:
- Dorothy McCoy, Ed.D. - The Manipulative Man: Identify His Behavior, Counter the Abuse, Regain Control
- Robin Norwood - Women Who Love Too Much: When You Keep Wishing and Hoping He'll Change
- Lundy Bancroft - Why Does He Do That?: Inside the Minds of Angry and Controlling Men
Turning our life around from codependency requires a delicate balance between rigorous honesty and deep acceptance. Many times, our codependecy stems from low self esteem. And this low self esteem means that looking long and hard at ourselves, and how we may have been integral to the purgatory we feel we are living, can be extremely difficult and cause us to feel intense self-pity which further keeps us in self-sabotaging habits.
I used to flip flop between denial, "I am fine, I'm a great person", and catastrophic self-pity, "I am a horrible person, no one will ever like me if they truly know me, I'm going to have a horrible life", particularly as I started to become more aware of my codependent patterns and how much I was avoiding intimacy and responsibility.
The lighthouse that keeps me going is the life I envision for myself and making small steps to get closer to it. Getting to a high level of self acceptance by sheer pragmatism has helped enormously. "I am this way, I need to accept it; I have distorted thinking and I have a tendency to act this way in these ways; I should be surprised when I do different, not when I do the same I always tend to do". And the small victories of taking responsibility and feeling empowered by it has helped build up my self-esteem in sustainable ways (denial was obviously never sustainable -.-' ).
I recommend Dialectical Behavior Therapyto learn to deal with overwhelming emotions and finding what works; and Staying sober without God: the practical 12 steps for a non-spiritual take of the famous 12 steps for recovery.
It's all about getting to really know ourselves, to become curious and accepting, while also continuously and consistently committing to the life we want to build for ourselves, in ways that work (and that's also a continuous discovery).
The Libby app links with library catalogs to lend audio books for free with library membership, there's lots of books available this way at no cost https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.overdrive.mobile.android.libby
I listened to a couple podcasts with this author, and she has very good information for women in your situation. Please organize and prepare yourself - physically and emotionally - as you get ready for this break. Seek advice from local domestic violence shelters and resources. Knowledge is power.
We’ve all been there at one point or another. Take good care of yourself, and Godspeed in your mission. We are all rooting for you!!!
How To Do No Contact Like A Boss!: The Essential Guide to Detaching From Pathological Love & Reclaiming Your Life https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00RM9QV9Q/ref=cm_sw_r_awdo_navT_a_2WP81J81BQP4CPFBV76G
Suggested reading:
Conquering Shame and Codependency: 8 Steps to Freeing the True You
And while you're waiting for it to arrive, Recovering from Shame.
I'm wondering what would be the parenting approach if you had an actual kid with this issue. I keep hearing about this book relating to parenting foster or adoptive kids with trauma, so maybe it would be helpful in terms of approaches to parenting your inner child.
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000WCWWC0/ref=dp-kindle-redirect?_encoding=UTF8&btkr=1
I haven't read the book, so don't know how relevant it would be.
Get a copy of THIS BOOK. Could be The Door to a whole new way of being.
I know the agony. My heart goes out to you.
Great resource. Food for thought.
Firstly, I want to commend you for wanting to put an end to this cycle with your own child. It's a beautiful thing to know that there are parents out there that are so self aware and willing to do the work to make sure their child is supported and empowered. Have you read Elaine Aron's book about HSP's? Well she also has one for parents of HSP children, check it out! https://www.amazon.com/Highly-Sensitive-Child-Children-Overwhelms/dp/0767908724
I can tell by the way you express yourself that you're intelligent, so I'm going to recommend Iron Legacy by Donna Bevan-Lee. After helping to found CoDA in the 1980s, Bevan-Lee worked as a therapist treating codependency and C-PTSD for 40 years and wrote ONE comprehensive, readable book on the subject two years ago. The book uses the language of trauma, rather than codependency, because it integrates the insights of the original codependency writers (Black, Woititz, Norwood, Beattie, Bradshaw, and especially Mellody) with 21st-century research, which uses that language. Also because Bevan-Lee believes that there's no healing codependency without understanding the trauma that gave rise to it. Though the book is crammed with information and practical advice, it's not a slog because every section begins with a story from the author's life that reads like good fiction.
Determining my personal values has helped me the most with finding direction and purpose for my life that’s not related to controlling or fixing others. I used this book. When I feel like idk what to do with my time or I feel empty without another person to focus on, I try to think of an activity that aligns with my values. It still doesn’t feel super comfortable or natural, but it’s a start.
Here’s a funny one:
Maybe Swearing Will Help: Adult... https://www.amazon.com/dp/0996764135?ref=ppx_pop_mob_ap_share
Mandalas... I really love this one
Mandala Coloring Books for Adults by Colorya - Spiral-Bound, Premium Quality Paper, No Medium Bleeding, One-Sided Printing, A4 Size - Mandala Coloring https://www.amazon.com/dp/2900628288/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apip_sTq15BB3mBmSm
I am going to CoDA (12 step) meetings (all of them are online now), and working with a therapist on a Cognitive Behavioral Therapy book: https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/160623918X/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o05_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
Oh gosh, yes! The cptsd community is a supportive group, I highly recommend it. Very validating to read about others’ experiences and safe to share your own if you feel comfortable doing so.
If you haven’t read Pete Walker yet, I’d start there.
> That's the process I'm starting now. I don't even know what boundaries are.
If you don't mind me helping a little, there are several helpful books on boundaries that I found quite useful. This was the first one I read.
Also, CoDA meetings were very helpful in learning about boundaries and how to set them. Melodie Beattie discusses them in her work on codependency, also.
I personally have the audiobook and getting the workbook to go along with it. Here is the amazon link to the one that was recommended to me.
I relate 1000% to this... Healing is possible but like you mentioned it can take years without seeing any tangible results. And it's easy for people like us to beat ourselves up when we repeat the same patterns, but I think one of the first steps is to be gentle and kind to yourself because you're on a journey just like everyone else, whether they struggle with codependency or not. Everyone has their ups and downs, and you're not as in control of other people and relationships as you might believe. If you slip up, nothing's going to explode and you're not in danger. It's easy for me to type out, but not so easy to remind myself!
I'm working on a DBT workbook right now that's helping me quite a bit with some of the outward behaviours. You've probably heard this a bunch, but healthy self-love is the absolute foundation and the behaviours are easier to change when your self is nourished.
Please take a look at Ross Rosenberg's "The Human Magnet Syndrome: The Codependent Narcissist Trap." A great portion he speaks about is how to not pass the baton to your children. He goes into great detail and offers good incite. He does regular videos on YouTube including with Lisa A Romano and others mentioned here.
https://www.amazon.com/Human-Magnet-Syndrome-Codependent-Narcissist/dp/168350867X
You can also find this book on Audible. Good luck!
Well, if you don't want to be there for him because you ll be hurt, then that sounds like a boundary to me. That's cool to have esp as a codependent who perhaps needs to save the other one while trying to control them somewhat.
Addiction is not cancer, people do recover. Statistically smoking is the hardest to recover from, while codependency with therapy and hard work would take half year (from what I read and depending on having other issues). Maybe you could check these out:
https://www.amazon.com/Facing-Love-Addiction-Giving-Yourself/dp/0062506048
Ross Rosenberg and dr. Ramani on YouTube.
On top of what your said, a healthy relationship to me is one where you love and let go knowing it's fine. It's not 2 people broken and leaning on each other. It's two people that can stand on their own quite fine but they do not WANT to stay apart. When it becomes not tenable and even toxic, one doesn't feel drawn to stay despite the harm, one leaves. Might try to help a while until it becomes clear that it's not working. Not that the other person doesn't deserve help anymore, but it is simply not them who can offer this help. It's not sad, it's that we cannot be everything for the ones we love. What we can do is understand this as in itself is a great step forward for us and for them. We can guide though, we can pray, we can root for them and be near while we are safe and not hurt. People need to learn about life and evolve getting into and hopefully out of tough times and experiences that not necessary involve the SO.
I’m working through some similar things with a therapist. She recommended this book that I’m working through currently and it’s helping me.
Uh, well, CoDA has its <em>own</em> "big book" for 25 years.
Please read this book - it changed my life. My eyes opened. Lots of tears, realizations, hurdles, layers to this codependency. It is the driving factor of my life. Today I can look, laugh, and love myself. No one is perfect. Don’t beat yourself up too much. Knowing this about yourself is the beginning of the willingness required to take this journey.💜💜
Codependent No More: How to Stop Controlling Others and Start Caring for Yourself
(https://www.amazon.com/dp/0894864025/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_i_sN6hFbCQRBAXZ)
Sociopathy is just an extreme form of this stuff:
Counter-dependence The Other Side of Co-dependency
Ask anyone who knows who Theodore Millon, Hervey Cleckly, Aaron Beck or Michael Stone are.
It sounds like you need to set a boundary for yourself about how much of her complaining you’re willing to listen to. Lindsay Gibson, in Recovering from Emotionally Immature Parents points out that we can refuse any topic we don’t feel like discussing, and gives the following example:
> For instance, my client Tina felt a sensation like “a twig snapping” inside her when she finally reached a breaking point over her mother’s victimized complaining. From then on, Tina changed the subject, objected, or left whenever her mother started burdening her and draining her energy. Once Tina became aware of the toxic effect of some of her mother’s conversation, she could dodge it as automatically as if she were avoiding physical blows. (“ Mom, I don’t have the skills to help you with that. Let’s talk about something else.”) If her mother had persisted in asking her to just “listen,” Tina could’ve said something like, “Can’t do it, Mom. It makes me too sad.”
For me, The New Codependency by Melody Beattie was better than Codependent No More. I have been reading The Covert Passive Aggressive Narcissist: Recognizing the Traits and Finding Healing After Hidden Emotional and Psychological Abuse and it has been really helpful.
Addiction, as others have said. I've been there. Only way is no contact. Know that, believe it.
Boundaries Updated and Expanded Edition: When to Say Yes, How to Say No To Take Control of Your Life https://www.amazon.com/dp/B06XFKNB2Y/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_i_LjIzCb9YFAYDB
This and meditation helped me. It isn't easy to break thought patterns, but I know you can do it.
I haven't had a chance to read them myself yet but Henry Cloud makes a number of books related to boundaries. Here's one.
It sounds like you can up your connection and communication in healthy ways. I like to recommend More Than Two as a book about relationships, communication and ensuring needs get met, but understand it could be triggering given your situation and beliefs. Give it a thought though because they do not mess around in terms of making sure people in relationship stay connected. As far as answering your questions, whatever you both agree on is fine so long as you're both happy. There's no standard.
On the flip side, he can only do so much for you - there's a lot of work you need to do in unloading these beliefs. Working with him on those is a great way to go.
There's a lot going on here. I asked a bunch of friends recently what love meant to them and they all had different answers - I respect each of them and see them as relatively good and healthy people so I just accepted that. It kind of left me free to come up with my own so I started. One person had a definition that was focused on taking (receiving experiences, receiving x), the other two more on giving, which was more my style (better or worse for codependence). Whatever your definition, the biggest thing is that you don't make love go past your boundaries of personal safety lest you tap into codependence.
I really recommend you read More Than Two. This book's primary subject matter is polyamorous connection, but the reasons I'm recommending it here are:
- They spend a lot of time, particularly early on, describing all the different ways different people relate to one another in sexual, romantic, and long-term ways. This is helpful for someone, potentially like us, who didn't grow up with these concepts.
- They reinforce the fact that relationships are there to serve the individuals and that there are no relationships more important than either individual. This is a great way to teach boundaries and get in front of codependent behaviours from a different angle.
- My opinion - if you can tell your friend you love her in a moment and not feel that way at other moments, some kind of polyamorous framework may be applicable to you once codependency gets stripped away. Nothing wrong with that, but I'd weigh it if you're putting all options on the table.
Have you tried reading any materials geared for codependents/self discovery? Therapy works wonders for some people, but if you're curious about investigating/learning about yourself you can spend $80 (which is the cost of a therapy session) and learn a ton about yourself.
Meditation has really helped me, mindfulness stuff. Here's a few books you might find interesting: Healing the Shame that Binds you, Codepdent No More, How to Raise your Self Esteem/The Six Pillars of Self Esteem, if you're a man and struggle with women Models by Mark Manson or any of his shit over at markmanson.net. All great materials to get the ball rolling and change your viewpoint, and maybe help you decide whether you want to see a therapist.
I'm always around for a chat if you want to PM me about anymore of this stuff! I'm a GAD suffering codepedent compensatory narcissist just finally starting my journey to self-actualization, so I feel you!
> Paul Bondarovski
https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/25342553-consensus-trance
Huh! The co-author is an old acquaintance of mine from about 30 years ago. We never talked about this topic back then, however. Interesting.