Yeah, I would suggest Nordvpn and TunnelBear as well. I've used Nordvpn for a year now and I have no complains, while it works great with netflix it also has a large pool of servers. There were slight speed drops on far away servers, but tbh recently the speeds improved a lot. I have not used TunnelBear, but I've heard it works well too
There's a couple ways to go about this so I'm not sure if this is the most efficient method.
Download Antutu benchmark: https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.antutu.ABenchMark&hl=en
Run the benchmark and report the score you get. Then also go to the "Info" tab and take a screenshot of the basic info. Upload a screenshot of it to something like imgur and link here. It'll show us the specs as when I last checked about fake S6's Antutu doesn't get fooled. In case that it is somehow fooled by a fake, the score itself definitely cannot be faked and we can cross reference that with reported online benchmarks of the phone.
Edit: Sorry my initial link linked to the wrong app. its been fixed
Edit 2: In case anyone else reads this yes this is applicable to other phones. Fakes have their own OS developed by whoever made the fake. In the settings -> about phone the processor is sometimes listed there. Fakes will have the real processor model hard coded in there. If you run the benchmark and get like 50-60% of the score you're supposed to get, I would safely say it's a fake. Common benchmarks are Antutu and geekbench.
One option: Jet.com currently has the Honor 8 for $299
It's a very decent phone for the price and will be updated to Android Nougat in February.
Other options: Nexus 5X, Moto X Pure
Why's that? Are smartphones too expensive and easy to break or what is your issue? Should that be it I'd recommend you look into rugged phones (I heard Dogee S80 is an excellent choice)
Should it not be that I recommend you get just about any cheap throwaway phone like you can find in pretty much any store (around where I am anyway). My Parents have had such phones for more then 2 year for sure perhaps more and they've never had issues. AFAIK Gps devices are pretty expensive so you should probably find a phone that is gps capable. If you don't want to take such a gamble with dollarstore phones perhaps check ebay;
One that I just found by a quick google search that seems pretty decent would be this. My mother used to own that phone before she got her current one and it lasted her pretty long. A list of it's features can be found here.
I am looking for such a cell phone too, my old Google-2/HTC Magic is dying on me very frequent lately.
I do not know yet, but I'll have either a good old Erricsson T39 or a modern Smartphone with full QUERTZ keyboard targeted to the Linux-Guru crowd.
Have never owned an Apple product (to this day) & I don't plan upon it.
Had a Pearl Flip 8220 during the Fall of '08 & upgraded to the Curve 8900 that following Spring a few months later in '09, the 8220 was too narrow after putting it thru real world use.
Was great for calls, but at that point I had owned many devices since the '90s & knew exactly what I did/didn't need from them & had to switch it up on an early upgrade.
The screen on the Storm 1 was garbage, they improved it on the 2, but still was meh according to everyone I knew who had one & "hated the click."
To stop apps lagging you want to have a phone with a good amount of RAM.
To get a decent bang for your buck you could go with a Chinese phone. Phones associated with China usually are considered dodgy. However, seeing as I own one (from the same brand I'm recommending) I can personally say that this is largely untrue and its just people aren't used to most Chinese phones usually bad OS's.
http://www.gearbest.com/cell-phones/pp_197994.html
Here is a phone with a good specification list as well as a nice feeling and customisable OS which adapts well to Western preferences.
Hope this helped in some way and would be happy to offer any more advice.
It may be a little over budget, but the Xiaomi Mi A1 is probably the best choice for under $200 and it has type c and also runs stock android. Has the snapdragon 625 which is slightly older, but still decent performance especially for the price. You’ll probably have to buy it off amazon or something. Here’s the GSMArena review: https://www.gsmarena.com/xiaomi_mi_a1-review-1668.php
The thing about Android is there is an amazing phone selection. Your requirements of social media apps, Notes and Google Drive are supported universally-storage will be the driver-and I don't know what you would find suitable 32, 64, 128 GB or more. Two ways to go on storage-many phones support micro SDHC cards, or just main memory. A nice resource is the GSM Arena phone finder https://www.gsmarena.com/search.php3?
I personally use a ZTE Axon 7 and nexus 5X.
https://www.gsmarena.com/piccmp.php3?idType=1&idPhone1=8161&idPhone2=8733
S8 camera has more vivid colors, Pixel opts for realism. Pixel also has interesting Google photo algorithm stuff. Both phones come in 128gb.
This tablet might be good, I don't know much about tablets but Samsung is a great company
I think the Z3 is better but I can't find good links to it. It's a little more expensive.
http://www.amazon.co.uk/LG-Google-Nexus-SIM-Free-Smartphone-White/dp/B00GG2R65I
Nexus is £260
edit: found a Z3 link http://eshop.sonymobile.com/gb/buy/gb-xperia-z3/?__utma=134792878.629356775.1443552559.1443552559.1443552559.1&__utmb=134792878.2.9.1443552578451&__utmc=134792878&__utmx=-&__utmz=134792878.1443552559.1.1.utmcsr=google|utmccn=(organ... you can probably get it a lot cheaper if you look around a bit.
There are two versions. The Z3 compact is smaller.
no problem. They used to be called bar phones but I think now they're mostly referred to as feature phones. I think Nokia makes most of the better and current ones. These feature phones tend to get more on the expensive side when you want to have waterproof or higher water resistance. Also feature phone cameras will take pictures with far less quality if that may be a concern. Check out the nokia 800 tough too although it runs on the expensive side too though. If you're wanting to keep costs lower you can still go with the nokia 6300 4g and use on of these waterproof cases on it
https://www.amazon.com/underwater-case-Nokia-6300-6301/dp/B00LOF2Z58
https://www.gsmarena.com/compare.php3?idPhone1=9408&idPhone2=9791
Everything LOL. From how it looks, to the specs of the phone. It's better on every single metric. These phones work in the UK/EU but don't work in the US... which is why you're getting recommendations for a Pixel.
https://www.gsmarena.com/compare.php3?idPhone1=7079&idPhone2=9690
You get a third more battery, faster charging of it.
You get a worse camera.
You get 4gig of ram, compared to 3gig of ram. (a quarter more speed)
You get a slightly better processor.
You get a worse screen.
So, you'll be upgrading some areas, and downgrading others. Pixels phones IMO are really bad, spec wise. You can get much better phones than Pixels, for a lot cheaper.
But, this depends on where you're located. If you're in the US you are more limited in your options, due to Xiaomi's and Asus phones not working due to them working on different bands.
If you're in Europe, potentionally Canada, I can recommend better phones.
For 80dollars extra, the OnePlus line of phones works in the US.
https://www.gsmarena.com/compare.php3?&idPhone2=9690&idPhone1=9816
And this phone, is much better than a Pixel 3a.
Give me a budget and where you're located in the world and I'll happily tell you whats the best phone (imo) you can get. Getting a Pixel is just crazy though any time I see anybody recommend a Pixel it makes me think WTF. It's like buying a McDonalds happy meal, instead of buying a medium rare steak in a 5star restaurant for cheaper, because happy meals are marketed better.
there are some motorola phones about 100 to 110 on amazon. search seller amazon warehouse. These will be returned slightly used but excellent deals though. Pay attention to the condition of them listed. Right now the moto g power is $97 from them for a fair condition and $110 for good condition
When I had my S10, I bought a car phone holder that came with a small metal plate to stick on your phone. Instead I placed the plate inside my slim phone case and that held it in place. It didn't interfere with my wireless charging either.
Maybe you can find a metal plate online and just pair it with a case of your choosing.
Btw, this is similar to what I bought and it even comes with different sized and shaped metal plates: Magnetic Phone Holder - https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07YRKDF4P/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_i_P5DTAKN3Y2X8P5QEGZ6W
[Check out this article from gsmarena](https://www.gsmarena.com/gaming_phones_throttling_performance-review-1957p3.php) comparing two similar "gaming" phones to other mainstream flagship phones. The drop in performance after a brief period of time due to cooling issues kinda washed away my skepticism for gaming phones and now I'm pretty hyped for the asus rog 2 phone since that's coming around the corner.
I looked at Nokia as well as Sharp and Sony: Sony Xperia XZ1 Compact, Sharp Aquos R2 compact, and the Nokia 2.2. Unfortunately, availability in the US was slim.
The Samsung S10E is a little bigger than I wanted - it is 5.6" and I was trying to stay under 5.5", but I am leaning towards it:
Samsung Galaxy S10e 5.8-inch Dynamic AMOLED display with 2,280 x 1,080 resolution, 438ppi Snapdragon 855 or Exynos 9820 chipset — depending on the region 6/8GB of RAM 128/256GB of storage, microSD expansion up to 512GB 12 and 16MP rear cameras, 10MP front camera Non-removable 3,100mAh battery Android 9.0 Pie 142.2 x 69.9 x 7.9mm, 150g 5.6" x 2.75"
3.5mm jack
Thanks! Are you sure it has a 3.5mm jack? The specs listed here say it doesn't:
​
To be honest, I am getting the Samsung A20 for 170USD. I don't need much in a smart phone so long as the bells and whistle do ring just fine, 3GB RAM, USB TYPE-C, ANDROID PIE. That's all.
You could use this feature and narrow down your options in price and features: https://www.gsmarena.com/search.php3
Filtered a list for you of your flip phones you can get from 2015 till date with GPS: https://www.gsmarena.com/results.php3?nYearMin=2015&chkGPS=selected&sFormFactors=2,3
FYI I always love using this site, so should you.
Have a look at this comparison then you will decide on your own: https://www.gsmarena.com/compare.php3?idPhone1=9554&idPhone2=9646#diff-*,jsn-l21,*
So from this it looks like 1/3/7/28/40 is your target "4G" coverage. Sadly I'm getting nothing but smartphones from GSMArena with those search parameters. But that's probably the best place to start looking.
> Apple doesn't follow trends, they are trendsetters.
mhmmm rolls eyes
> Samsung sells so many phones because they excel in other areas like the screen, camera and they're unique design.
... read what you just said.
First you stated that no one buys phones if they don't conform to trends.
Now that i've stated that samsung sells the most phones, which is backed up by the numbers (over 100m more units).
https://thenextweb.com/plugged/2019/03/29/24-years-global-phone-sales-graph-visualization/
you're saying it's because they don't need to conform to trends they just excel in other areas... So which is it? Either they do need trends or they don't.
I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say you dunno what you're talking about.
Depends what matters to you.
I like the dual sim & micro SD option of the Samsung but I have a bias against Apple's biz strategy of charging for backup space & increasingly moving to monetize & control services.
Well the phone I'm (buying)[https://www.amazon.com/dp/B089HNHZ17/ref=cm_sw_r_apan_glt_fabc_VDE4QKFSRE86ZCBXZX7G?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1) is 279usd, I'm in the us and it's my personal phone.
But I'd be willing to spend 400 for an upgrade. But at that same time I'm ok with the phone I have now, I just want a screen that isn't cracked but the screen costs almost as much as the replacement device
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=downloader.video.download.free
I never heard of this website but I just went there and tried it with my go to download app and video and audio work just fine, happy fappening
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.idea.backup.smscontacts
Use this, you can extract all SMS using it as a xml file with all data like date and time and can easily view it on any browser by just opening it like you open a PDF file.
This was the video I found suggesting that 1GB of RAM is sufficient to run the game.
Generally speaking, a phone that has a good Graphics Processing Unit and a large amount of RAM runs intensive games better. I'd look for a phone using gsmarena's search by feature function to find the cheapest phones with 4 GB of RAM or more, list out any other functions you want (the big ones are usually the camera, screen size, network support for your current carrier, NFC and headphone jack availability) and then sort by price. Find around 10 cheap phones, and then compare their GPUs to find out which one's the best (generally) for gaming.
If you just want a phone recommendation and don't want to be bothered with finding the phone you want on gsmarena, then I'd recommend the Pocophone F1. It should be slightly cheaper than the other 2 options and it's pretty much one of the fastest phones around right now. I would recommend flashing your own software onto it, as the MiUI software it runs collects your data and uses it to put annoying ads on the phone, but if you don't mind ads or if you are comfortable with tinkering with your phone's software, I'd definitely recommend that phone.
I've used this for years, you get a backup on your phone, can also send to your email, drive, etc.. Really good freeware.
It appears there is only one version of the 5T:
https://www.gsmarena.com/oneplus_5-8647.php
The 5T supports all the bands of the 5 and the 5 is compatible with all carrier and all bands in Australia:
Excentric Mobiles on ebay is selling them and stock is in Australia
It looks like the Oneplus Australia webpage is all set except for a price. It might be "any day now."
I'm in the US so check everything.
This post explains how to boot into a custom recovery with a broken screen via adb/fastboot. When I last used TWRP recovery, USB file transfer was enabled upon boot.
https://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2339530
look on this page under the "SCREEN BROKEN TOUCH BROKEN NO CUSTOM RECOVERY" section.
This post recommends using Clockworkmod recovery but it is also quite an old post. You need to be sure to only use a recovery image that is made for your device's exact model and variant/region.
Check if your device is on TWRP supported list - https://twrp.me/Devices/
Also check if there is a Discord or Telegram group for your device's model - I know there are groups for Samsung ROM's, those people may have some more ideas.
You can get yourself a Pixel 3a and flash GrapheneOS on it. It's the most secure and private mobile OS I know of.
It's completely degoogled and far more security hardened, than LineageOS. Also, it receives OTA updates, so no need to update manually.
Check out their subreddit for more details.
https://www.android.com/switch/
There's also r/PickAnAndroidForMe
The chat groups linked in the sidebar of rAndroid are some place where you can find help too. Please don't be put off by them yabbering shit, a lot of them talk for the sake of talking but if they see you need help, they're the guys)
I know it's a bit late, and maybe you have found it, but here's the website that I think you're looking for: http://www.productchart.com/ . It fits perfectly with your description.
Homepage image: https://i.imgur.com/B1CAVNa.png
What you want is an IVR.
Twilio is kind of the gold standard in this arena, but doesn't come cheap.
There's also Line2 which is probably more in the church budget (assuming they're not rolling in money).
There was one that was advertising on some podcasts a few years ago, but I can't remember the name of it. Probably does about the same thing.
You can sort of hack your way through it with Google Voice, but I wouldn't deploy something like Google Voice in an actual business environment where there's no support or quality control unless you're 100% prepared to be their entire IT department.
Sorry for the long post. This is a review of the S20 FE 5G.
Purchase link for the S20:
I think you hit it right on the nose with the A52 5G. It's a surprisingly good phone for the price. I think everyone except gamers and camera enthusiasts would really enjoy it.
I don't think any phone comes close to it spec-wise except maybe the realme 8 pro, have a look at it.
https://www.amazon.co.uk/realme-Unlocked-Smartphone-Fullscreen-SuperDart/dp/B08WXRLYQZ/ref=sr_1_2?dchild=1&keywords=realme+8+pro&qid=1620033987&s=electronics&sr=1-2
If you don't mind\don't want 5G, I just got a Ulefone note 11P. It just came out in march, $200 on amazon unlocked. It's got damn near everything but wireless charging and NFC, and even can take a micro SD card for more memory. Link below:
> motorola moto g 2nd gen
I'm looking for a budget phone too - as cheap as possible, but not junk. It has to be unlocked. There's a Blu phone on Amazon for $50
and I wondered if I could get away with that, or if it would be better to get a Moto G 4
or Moto Play - all of these have Prime offers. Sorry if I'm hijacking this thread, maybe I should start a new thread with these questions. But all of these are $100 or less if you have Amazon Prime.
Personally, when you talk about build quality, near stock android, etc. it sounds like you're almost perfectly describing the Essential Phone to me. It's currently $489.99 on Amazon. It has a nearly bezel-less display on 3 of the 4 sides (it does have a small notch, if you care about that.), and has a very nearly stock android experience. The speakers and battery life are decent. It has fairly recent specs, so performance shouldn't be a problem.
It may seem like I'm avoiding build quality, but I'm actually saving the best for last. While many phones use plastic, aluminum, or glass for the majority of the build, the Essential phone uses Titanium and Ceramic. It is a very durable phone. However, I would still recommend a screen protector, as that's not exceptionally strong.
Hope this helps :)
Neither can I. Perhaps it was the 'e' model.
Here is cheapest I could find on amazon. Sorry if I got your hopes up
Hey Pal, I would recommend the <strong>Google PIXEL 3 (2018) G013A</strong> It has: 64GB - 5.5in inch - Android 9 Pie - Factory Unlocked 4G/LTE.
OR
Brand Samsung
Display Size 6.7 Inches
Operating System Android
Memory storage capacity 128 GB'
Colour Black
Cellular Technology 5G
Item Weight 206 Grams
Voice command Touchscreen
Resolution 1080 x 2400
Ya so can I use this https://imgur.com/gallery/OYep0dF and an amazon basic 5v = 2a Charger with these ones: Yootech Wireless Charger, [2 Pack] Qi-Certified 10W Max Wireless Charging Pad Stand Bundle,Compatible with iPhone SE 2020/11/11Pro/11Pro Max/XR,Galaxy S20/Note 10/S10,AirPods Pro(No AC Adapter) https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07P54F2JH/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_i_Hcy9EbR7BJ0AM
I don't know much about the phone itself except that Samsung's website only lists stores in Jordan (north-west of Saudi Arabia) but I found an Amazon link:
Samsung Galaxy A71 SM-A715F/DS 4G LTE 128GB + 6GB Ram Octa Core (LTE USA Latin Caribbean Euro) w/Four Cameras (64+12+5+5mp) Android (Black) https://www.amazon.com/dp/B084GBC1KH/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_i_UolvEbPGGK7RT
The Moto G7 is pretty great phone for the price point it is targeting. On Amazon they have the international version listed for about $160 (USD). https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07NP3RD5H/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_i_IvsdEb6PKH5SC
I'm looking at this and am considering buying this myself. It may be a teenie bit over your budget though.
Sozo Solar Charger, Solar Power Bank, Wireless Charging, 20,000mAh Capacity Solar Phone Charger, Three USB Ports, Ultra Bright LED Flashlight with Three Settings, Portable Power Bank, Solar Battery https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07HRG894H/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_i_J-Y3DbA69F45K
Try this: Download Ampere (https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.gombosdev.ampere&hl=en_US) , open the app, and plug the phone in one of the ports. Leave it for about a minute (the initial reading will pop up in 10 seconds) and note down the number of amps (the big number) it shows. Then, do the same with the other port. Whichever port has the higher number is the faster speed port.
That phone is no different mechanically than the one inside your house but is referred to as a Pay Phone. Cosmetically, it is in a case to hide the phone wire going into the ground via a pole and to protect money that goes in. It also has a metal sheathe over the chord to reinforce it. The only thing different is it has a small electronic board that registers when someone pays, starts a timer, and intercepts the phone call when the timer is up. This used to be handled by the phone company. You can purchase these online still like this one https://www.amazon.com/Crosley-CR56-BK-Payphone-Button-Technology/dp/B000063CK5/ref=mp_s_a_1_3?keywords=pay+phone&qid=1565885655&s=gateway&sprefix=pay+ph&sr=8-3 but most are decommissioned and it might be cheaper to make one yourself in some cases.
Oh, I'm sorry for wasting your time, but I actually found something with the best of both worlds here: https://www.amazon.com/Moto-4th-Generation-hands-free-Exclusive/dp/B07G7MYCCD/ref=sr_1_1?keywords=moto%2Bx4&qid=1551601780&s=gateway&sr=8-1&th=1
Maybe you have another suggestion for a phone though? My criteria are:
Affordable ($200-$300)
Good quality relative to the price
Works with T-Mobile and supports all the T-Mobile bands (with or without band 71)
i got both my grandparents the moto e4 plus at bestbuy and then we ran over to att and got a sim card. (bestbuy wouldnt sell just the simcard) if i remember they should have been free but i think we were charged like 5-10 bucks for them. they activated them and since the phones were unlocked i popped them in and they were off with their new phones. that phone is also their first smart phone ever. for the price its a great phone.
I'd say check out the phones by BLU, they're pretty well priced for the stuff they pack. I recently ordered a BLU phone, the Life One X2 to replace (a coincident) my S4 (the port is trashed, MB heats up, batt is shot, etc). I ordered mine for about just over $300 Canadian, though you're probably in the US so here's a link to the equivalent: https://www.amazon.com/BLU-LIFE-ONE-X2-Smartphone/dp/B01M13TSHR/ref=sr_1_3?s=wireless&ie=UTF8&qid=1496615599&sr=1-3&keywords=blu+life+one+x2
I mean, for just under $200 US it's not a bad phone, I linked you the 64GB/4GB RAM model. I mean I think it'll be a good jump from an S4 to a pretty new phone (less than a year old I believe). Hope this helped you make a choice or point you in a clearer path for a choice. (Mine comes in this Tues and I'll say how it is when it arrives mate!)
found in newsletter, new waterproof case on amazon from iOrange-E Compatible with iPhone 6/6S, SE, 5S, Samsung Galaxy S7, S6, S6 edge, Note 5 4, Nexus 5X, 6P and Other Smartphones up to 6 inch
I saw this phone online and i was just wondering if its at all a good phone. Its really cheap but ive never really heard of the BLU before. Tell me what you think Ben, is it a trustworthy phone or no. http://www.amazon.com/BLU-Studio-Smartphone-Lollipop-Unlocked/dp/B0129T197W/ref=sr_1_16?ie=UTF8&qid=1457322581&sr=8-16&keywords=smartphone+5
I'd recommend the Blu Energy X. It's $109 right now http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B015XIHSBW?keywords=blu%20energyx&qid=1451072758&ref_=sr_1_1&sr=8-1 Here are some of the specs - Unlocked Dual Sim Smartphone, with Android 5.1 Lollipop 4,000 mAh Super Battery that lasts approximately 3 days with standard usage and over 30 days on standby with just one charge 5.0" HD display, 8MP Main Camera with LED Flash + 2MP Front Camera MediaTek Quad Core 1.3 GHz processor with ARM Mali-400 GPU, 8GB Internal Memory 1GB RAM Micro SD up to 64GB. And it's running 5.1 Lollipop.
The youtube reviews on it are positive!
Yeah I was checking that out as well, I also seen this.http://www.amazon.com/HTC-Desire-626s-Contract-Phone/dp/B014X5UZJI/ref=zg_bs_2407748011_12 The HTC-Desire-626 people say the only downfall is the storage but that can be upgraded through an SD Card.
I did notice the Casio Gz line, but it does have a higher price. But if that's what you mean by ruggedness, then that type of phone is probably the one for you. I had looked at the BMALL rugged cell phone on Amazon, which has the same general set of features as the Posh Lynx.
I think most of the cheaper phones with similar features on Amazon probably use similar internal hardware, so any information about flashing these phones' firmware may be at least somewhat useful across all of them.
I don't know for sure if it is possible to flash firmware. However, the Posh Lynx does have a MicroSD card slot under the battery, located next to the SIM slots. It doesn't seem easy to insert an card into the MicroSD slot, which leads me to believe it may be used to flash firmware.
I believe both the M5 and the Posh Lynx use the Mediatek MT6260 chip as the CPU. The chip comes in two variants; one with on-board memory and one without it. You might find more information on firmware flashing if you research that chip specifically.
Out of the three: On paper the amazon fire is the better phone, with the 626s a close second. But I would personally go with either the 626s or the core prime myself.
That said. If you're looking for a phone in the $200 price range (I assume that's the range you're looking as all the phones you listed appear to be around $200 USD.), I would personally go with a moto G 3rd gen at $180, or the zenfone 2 at $200.
I mean it looks like a fine phone for at least your usage, you should read some of the reviews on amazon and see if any of the cons cause you any concern. I'm assuming you're getting a smartphone because people are commenting about your old phone or something or you want to make it look like you're more up to date. Any smartphone on the market can call and text just as well as the next. It's just what you want beyond that that distinguishes different smartphones.
The white phone is definitely a Samsung. The other one could be a Samsung Galaxy Beam. I haven't heard of any other cell phones with projectors built into them. I will check up on it, though. Update: It could be this: http://www.amazon.com/Ayane-Smart-Projector-Phone-Projector/dp/B00I9EARWK, but it looks thinner. It could not be the Beam, which has a yellow side.
I think you'd need something like this.
Sure, this here is the exact case I have!
Have you considered using a custom launcher? You could get her a Motorola G4 for 150-180 bucks and use a launcher like BIG Launcher (just an example, there's dozens if not hundreds of these launchers and I bet someone here has experience with a couple of them)