What are /r/AgainstGamerGate's favorite Products & Services?

From 3.5 billion Reddit comments

I would recommend anyone also read this piece before coming to any conclusions: The Tools of the Enemy.

This person who wrote that article is not a neutral observer, only has one side of the story, and has an agenda. Regardless of Zoe's actions during the relationship, Eron has repeatedly violated his restraining order and continues to stalk her online. He's conning people out of money for help with "legal fees" when he wouldn't have any fees to pay if he would stop violating and trying to appeal the order. He's proven himself to be manipulative, vengeful, and, quite frankly, in need of professional help. I doubt this behavior was triggered solely by her actions or the end of the relationship.

I'm not trying to say Zoe is an angel here either, but the relationship probably wasn't healthy for either of them. I've been cheated on, and I know how much it sucks. In the end, Eron deliberately set up this situation to garner the response it did, and the punishment doesn't fit the crime. You can't hurt other people just because you've been hurt too. Two wrongs don't make a right.

Apparently he just made a joke about Mercedes being Hispanic

Are people on the anti side still fine with his tone?

Personally I think it's a low blow, although I'm guilty of off colour jokes myself. But I get the feeling that this is the kind of thing antiGGers don't like.

GRRM's thoughts on the derogatory term "Teabagger":
> "That's different.

> The Tea Party members called themselves "teabaggers" when they first began. They only backed off when Keith Obermann explained on air the sexual meanings of the term. All this is well documented." -- Link

Which brings up an interesting point. Is a pejorative fair-game if the people who introduce it, are using it as a self-label? Because instances of people calling themselves "social justice warrior" date back quite a while, and there are still plenty of people that use it to describe themselves.

Or do we continually throwaway terms when enough people start disliking it? I'm sure people that joined the teabaggers, after the term had stuck, disliked being called teabaggers, and had never self-described themselves as teabaggers either. Should the term have been abandoned for their sake?

> What does "SJW" actually mean?

Quite simply put, a person who fights for "social justice", with a "warrior's" mindset--mainly the part of the mindset where you think all is permissible, and that the rules, or even the need for common courtesy don't apply as long as your side is winning.

Honestly, I thought "SJW" was a term both sides were happy with.

>Do you think this terminology is detrimental to GG's goals?

Only when used as a blanket statement to define all social justice advocates. Other than that, no.

Here's another one - http://www.tiki-toki.com/timeline/entry/336432/The-GamerGate-Chronicles/

Mostly bullet-points with brief descriptions of things, but there is a lot of information to shift through. Take with whatever grain of salt you wish....you should always check out more than one source of info to gain more perspective.

My wife and I were there and got out soon after the Colbert Report turned Occupy into laughingstock over the social justice activist. So I'm the source and I'm citing me and here is Stephen's Report in two parts:

http://thecolbertreport.cc.com/videos/d4hmi3/colbert-super-pac---stephen-colbert-occupies-occupy-wall-street-pt--1

http://www.myvidster.com/video/3166517/Colbert_Super_PAC_Stephen_Colbert_Occupies_Occupy_Wall_Street_Pt_2__The_Col

I see your "You're all right-wing!" and raise you a "I just wanted to bully nerds but it turns out there are devious forces at play and goddammit I'll see and end to it yet!.

Remember those mythical "SJWs" who don't actually exist? We have a tendencies to count people like this.

I'll concede that they're actually not doing that well, I was misled. But still, their current traffic report (link) puts them as roughly the same position at the start of this year as they were the start of last year.

Still, I think they're in a pretty stable position and Gamergate doesn't really hold much sway over them. I can't imagine they'll significantly change their content to avoid controversy.

Cryptography and anonymity go hand in hand. Ever heard of The Onion Router? Well it fundamentally uses cryptography and attempts to provide a guarantee of anonymity. The latter is used to protect citizens from state censorship, online surveillence, etc. Oh and you know what? It is also used by criminals, paeodphiles, spies, etc.

You seem to think that because people cannot be trusted to use the Internet because of anonymity, we need more legislation to cripple and compromise anonymity for the "greater good." I can tell you that anonymity is one of the greatest virtues of the Internet and it has the potential to save lives and improve the world despite those that abuse it.

Anonymity and privacy is all or nothing. You can't deny it for bad actors without compromising the good. I would reconsider your position.

Oh, look, she's also all these people!

I've never seen proof this is a lie. But GG loves claiming things are lies because they believe so hard. It's like they think they're Peter Pan. Well, I mean, some of them don't seem to grow up, but...

Here's a rebuttal basically going into the bias of the selection, the small size of the selection, how neutral the tweets were overall and how they don't fit with the 'against women' message

> They are lying. There was never, ever a review of DQ by Nathan Grayson. Not before, not since.

Ah see, thing of it is though is that wasn't the implication. Ever. That was something GG opponents made up. Go back to my initial post, about how people would misinterpret the accusation, get it wrong, and then because that wrong interpretation made no sense, the grumbly gremlins must be lying about things.

But the grumbly gremlins didn't say "she fucked Grayson for reviews!". They said she was having inappropriate relations with a man who was in a position to benefit her career considerably. This ended up being true. This ended up being true several times over, apparently.

Look what you're doing.Look what you're doing right now. I never said, at any point said "Grayson wrote a review". I spent 2 fairly long comments explaining why that was a mischaracterization of the argument and you then did it again. You're doing exactly what I'm explaining you people do and you are either completely ignorant of it, or are deliberately misinterpreting the remarks to try and get your own, inaccurate version of events to stick.

You're correct, Grayson didn't "write a review"! Problem being that... that wasn't what people said. Ever. At all. And what they were saying ended up being true; Quinn had a complicated (and lengthy, at that) relationship with a man who could and for all intents and purposes was happily helping advance her career. A conflict of interest. A matter of... ethics.

The gators didn't lie, the Gators were right, and by repeating the "BUT YOU SAID HE WROTE A REVIEW AND HE DIDN'T!!!", you're either horribly misinformed about what people are talking about, or are deliberately lying.

> You linked to a random crazy person on Twitter.

AMIB is anything but a "random Twitter guy", and while I understand the 'Anti-GG isn't actually a thing it's anybody who says GG sucks that's different...' but that man actually does go out of his way and makes politically charged videogame reviews as a means to attack those he feels warrant it. Le ethics meme. The fabled but totally non-existent "biased reviews". In 5 minutes I just delivered proof of what you spent a paragraph trying to (albeit very politely) convince all of us were figments of our imagination. Standing our ground on that issue, not wanting to be wrong, because holy shit man it's not wrong.

And you know what? It's understandable that you weren't immdiately familiar with AMIB, or what he was actually up to. But you also weren't really leaving yourself open to the fact that such a thing even existed. The 'professional GG underminer' doesn't exist, and nobody actually writes videogame reviews for solely political reasons. You knew this to be the reality.

But that man does exist, does write those things, and I was able to find it immediately. I'm saying you're right? Because it looks as though I'm elaborating on how the entire original post has it backwards.

>They have found over 40 instances alone on the time line. http://www.tiki-toki.com/timeline/entry/355300/The-Dirty-History-of-Games-Journalism/

Most of those are non-starters, and few have evidence. It also is completely wrong-headed at points; it lists the Duke Nukem Forever thing, ignoring the fact that there was a massive outcry against it from game journalists. And yet suddenly it's the journos' fault? There's also a lot of really stupid "but they had (Game X) ads" assumptions, ignoring all the times a game was criticized while the sites were running those ads.

>Again your backtracking to the dick waving on harassment. People pro GG have received syringes and a ton of other people have gotten death threats. This does nothing to further either side.

And again, when one 'side' has a group that explicitly has been known to pretend to be overly aggressive SJWs in order to discredit them? Makes you think.

>http://press.gamergate.me/dossier/ They talk about reviewers admitting they get bonuses for better reviews.

I'm not reading that whole thing. Quote the relevant part please.

Okay here's the article explained to you.

See? Not so bad is it? It looks like it bags on Gamergate, but it actually points out that the Mainstream Media is interested in Gamergate and not in a way that makes gamers look good. They were pointing out the industry is being made to look.. well.. stupid. Pointless. For out of touch people with emotional issues and it has to stop because there's people in it who are great.

It's an article about how the world sees gamers and why they're wrong. We know people outside the hobby have always looked at us with contempt, confusion or hostility. This was a call to say "Look, that's done, we can move on from that. People should be liking us now"

> The claim was that Kleiner Perkins was racist/sexist in how they treated Pao.

Here's a fun thing one of the partners at Kleiner Perkins said:

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/kleiner-perkins-at-it-again-with-partners-tactless-diversity-comment-2015-09-22?siteid=rss&rss=1

> But one comment Doerr made on recruiting and the company’s newest hires didn’t sit well with the broader tech community.

> “We have two partners who are so diverse, I have a challenge pronouncing their names,” Doerr said onstage.

> Those partners are Swati Mylavarapu and Muzzammil Zaveri.

Lovely place to work, I bet.

I didn't realize doing something else meant it wasn't a job.

But I guess being paid to make those videos doesn't fall under any sane definition of 'job'

I looked both of them up, Gel is apparently some no-name anon GG supporter ( or a Insurance Manager??? This is the fourth result in google.) and Kain is an obscure vidja blogger for forbes.com. (I know when I want video game news I go to fucking forbes.com)

LOL wow nevermind these people are fucking famous as shit and totes well known outside the GG echo chamber!

If these are the best two examples you can come up with of well-known non-right wing GG supporters that's pretty fucking pathetic TBH.

Webhosts , and web services providers in general, market positive customers in various ways, so they obviously consider it to be part of their brand. e.g. https://www.linode.com/case-studies

It stands to reason that they might not want to be associated with a real stinker of a customer.

http://www.reddit.com/r/AgainstGamerGate/comments/2utk18/can_we_please_stop_pretending_hes_just_a_troll_is/

>Poe's law. I honestly can't tell if he's unhinged or is really really good at seeming to be unhinged. The fact that he made this patreon (linked below) makes me think he is just a troll. https://www.patreon.com/parkourdude91

>>This also includes our R&D budget which is used to fund research into new areas, such as the cures for homosexuality. Our hypothetical idea is to purchase mice that appear homosexual and try to rehabilitate them in a safe environment and/or with various non-intrusive methods.

>I don't know about you but this is hilarious.

called it

> Hahahahahaha, if no one were against ethical journalism there would be no aGGros.

Has it ever occurred to you that people might be against GG not because they are "against ethical journalism" but because they think GG's definition of ethics is, to put it mildly, somewhere between lacking and mistaken? Reasonable people might disagree over something without one of the sides having to be evil or stupid, y'know.

> You mean like the escapist who fired pretty much all of their provocateur writers & hired well known GG writers instead?

TE was pretty much the only well known game press outlet who embraced GG. And look just how well that's working out for them.

Gender studies.

You have to ask yourself if you would like to expand upon gender studies to philosophy in general or stick to gender studies' narrow use of postmodern critique?

Most professors in higher education are now arguing postmodernism is one of the worst things to happen to liberal arts and the humanities.

Even Chomsky has come out against it.

I mean obviously I can't speak to the intent of everyone so I can't say for sure, but I've seen some very convincing people on tumblr and other sites where over the top feminism is common. Can we say for the sake of argument that there is at least one person? I'm actually arguing against the guilt by association point and "hategroup" labeling so I'm not saying that the people on tumblr are indicative of the whole movement.

Edit: I guess if that doesn't convince you, I'd be willing to substitute the "killallmen unironically" part for this post which proves my point equally well: https://archive.is/iITfR

Poe's law. I honestly can't tell if he's unhinged or is really really good at seeming to be unhinged. The fact that he made this patreon (linked below) makes me think he is just a troll.

https://www.patreon.com/parkourdude91

>This also includes our R&D budget which is used to fund research into new areas, such as the cures for homosexuality. Our hypothetical idea is to purchase mice that appear homosexual and try to rehabilitate them in a safe environment and/or with various non-intrusive methods.

I don't know about you but this is hilarious.

She is a software engineer for Xbox. It happened back in early December.

https://medium.com/@zoequinnzel/microsoft-developer-comes-forward-against-xbro-falsely-representing-the-company-microsoft-still-e5aeb68c5b51

I just did a little google search re: Quinn harassment pre-GamerGate and came upon an article about the WizardChan stuff. This was one of the quotes:

>All females are sluts and have no right to be depressed. They can just go onto the street, lie down with their hole open and have a man come and solve all of their problems. But they would still be depressed because they're all just stupid whores.

>She is the one responsible. Of course a woman would never relate to anyone here. She would never be with a truly depressed person. Can someone mail her a rant or a link to this thread? God I hate that ****

Years ago I frequented a usenet social anxiety group and there was this prolific poster who was reviled because he posted stuff like this. He hated women and claimed that social anxiety complaints from woman are bullshit because women can always get laid (because social anxiety is solely about relationships /s). I guess he was my first experience with a MRA/redpill type. Haven't thought of him in years but that post reminded me.

Edit: I did a search and it was a shyness group. Here is an example: https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/alt.support.shyness/DyyJnLbUTWg

I only remembered the OP but now I see that it was filled with guys like him.

I don't know how to access that, but if it was that easy to find this much cp on 8chan then it was probably up for awhile.

As far as I can tell, he produced a shovelware game for the Kinect.

http://www.mobygames.com/developer/sheet/view/developerId,348154/

Yeah, that doesn't make him Sid Meier or anything, but she's not wrong. More importantly, have you produced anything in your life besides internet bullshit?

If not, then STFU. He has a credit, you don't.

> https://archive.is/PhaQd

That's really what GGers are working them into a lather about? I thought someone would at least have actually called a threat into the bar for there to be this much palaver.

> A bomb threat is "good PR"? Ok.

Uh, yes, obviously. Why else would GGers be so happy about it, and be talking about it nonstop this morning?

> Anti-GG campaign for regulations on free speech on the internet

What are these campaigns? Moderation of a private forum isn't some form of censorship. You can still go to 4chan or whatever and enjoy their free speech.

> limit artistic expression

Examples of artistic expression limited, please? Besides the limiting of Bioware's expression regarding the end of Mass Effect 3, I mean.

Meanwhile, actual devs disagree.

> not allow criticism on certain public figures and the press

Who's stopped you from saying what where? Facing the consequences of your free speech is quite an important part of free speech.

> While GG campaigns for the right to criticize the press and debate on corruption and stop censorship.

I'd have an easier time of believing that if it hadn't been for the Bayonetta 2 debacle, which doesn't exactly paint a picture of the movement as free, tolerant, open or critical.

> Those people (I'm in it) definitely don't have conservative social idea... They think Gender equality is pretty much safe in the western culture.

Quite a conservative idea.

https://archive.today/asuiQ

THIS is harassment

What happened to claire was harassment.

https://archive.is/S0cIj/2923db938bd3499569c5dc5554ae24540c6a0295.png

^ this and so many more things were harassment

I don't see antis actively condemning this side of things. That must mean they all support harassment. Why can't they just come forward ONCE and condemn it!>?
/s

Janus seems to like hearing himself talk. Yesterday he kept arguing about how what anti gg has done isn't censorship, and argued over the meaning of censorship (and changed goalposts etc constantly). Eventually concluding that Julian Assange doesn't know what censorship is if he disagrees with Janus!

Yet now he is arguing that this amounts to harassment. I am not a fan of the "i'm gonna die soon" thing, and argue that it was ,hurtful, wrong and mean-spirited.

But it doesn't seem like harassment by itself in my view. Moreover, the other critical comments such as, why are you on twitter instead of being with your dog? Seemed pretty reasonable.

I have seen much worse shit on twitter from both sides, and seen antis defending such behavior. I dunno, I'm getting a double standards vibe with this guy and others. It seems to me that he has a narrative and everything has to fit into it.

> They're quite capable of setting up their own websites to spread their hate. Allowing them to do so on your platforms is not admirable.

I disagree, I think it's a necessary evil. I admire people like the PRQ guys who say "if it's legal in our country, we'll host it, even if we hate it". This is part of the "defend to the death your right to say it". Because if you're legally allowed to say it, but can't do it in practice, that pretty much makes it moot in practice.

I'm not saying you are forced to give them a platform either. You are entirely allowed and entitled not to give someone you don't like a platform. That's because speech is a freedom ("we can't prevent you"), not a right ("we have to do what it takes to enable you to") : you are free to go wherever you want but you don't have a right to free transportation, you do have a right to a fair trial though for example (it's not up to you to organize it and make it fair).

Yet, even if speech is merely a freedom and nobody's forced to enable it, I appreciate and admire the work of those who chose to do it, even when they give a platform to people I highly despise.

Am I the only one seeing 8chan as pretty much a hosting provider, and not a web site?

The way I see it, 8chan provides a hosting service for people to set up their imageboard, like blogspot does with blogs, or godaddy does with web hosting as a whole. And he has a stance of "if it's legal I'll keep it". I don't see any wrong with that, as long as he's actually going to nuke imageboards that are blatantly illegal or advocating illegal posting.

I'm fine with the "if it's legal I'll keep it", because, basically, it's probably legal for a reason. There are shittons of stuff that are ruled illegal, and what's legal/what isn't is discussed every single day by elected representatives of our societies: I find it pretty sane that some people are taking the stance of "I'm no judge and if it's not actually judged illegal by someone who is legally appointed for this, I am no vigilante, no private police, and it's none of my business as a service provider what people do with my services".

It's the same stance taken by PRQ in Sweden for example, and I don't really see anyone throwing a tantrum about it.

She is a software engineer for Xbox. It happened back in early December.

https://medium.com/@zoequinnzel/microsoft-developer-comes-forward-against-xbro-falsely-representing-the-company-microsoft-still-e5aeb68c5b51

Raising awareness among devs and rallying against haters and harassers is one thing, like that list last year that got 2000 devs signed. Criticism of stereotypes and bigotry in games and gaming culture, as well as lifting up positive examples, also helps with the general atmosphere and make people feel welcome.

Where I live female devs have workshops for girls and gamedev educations have had programs to attract women.

As for me personally, I donate money, I've encouraged girls to play games, and I try to be as big a pain in the ass to haters and reactionaries in reality as I am online.

I understand your premise behind lacking a figurehead hurts credibility, but unfortunately, as I mentioned, anyone can use a hashtag and if there was a figurehead, they would be unable to do ANYTHING but "damage control."

Who/what are you referring to with the most influential voices being a harm? I'm curious honestly.

The examples I provided decry and report the harassers including reporting them to law enforcement or attempting to provide the person being harassed (regardless of their "opinion" of Gamergate) because it is NOT condoned. Anyone that DOES harass, doxx, threaten, etc. IS disassociated with, reported and everything is documented to provide to Law Enforcement. NO ONE is excusing or condoning it regardless of who is the "target".

I quoted target because Gamergate has been blamed for multiple instances of "threats and/or harassment" that in some cases no one was able to locate any instance of. There have been accusations that GG sent hundreds/thousands of harassment tweets but nothing was found to verify that.

Not long ago there was an article that claimed to "research" the tweets involving Gamergate. http://www.newsweek.com/gamergate-about-media-ethics-or-harassing-women-harassment-data-show-279736
The problem is that the "research" was COMPLETELY flawed and so biased that it was going in circles. https://medium.com/@cainejw/an-actual-statistical-analysis-of-gamergate-dfd809858f68

And then there was the USU threat that was blamed on Gamergate. Despite the threat never once mentioning games, gamers, or Gamergate, feminists were directly mentioned in the threat as well as the referenced shooting, somehow it was Gamergates fault.

I think ~40k for doing jack all is pretty significant!

Oh, have you seen Feminist Frequency's finances lately? Man, making youtube videos once an epoch takes so much money!

> I'm not buying Final Fantasy XV because of their stupidity on gender.

It is blatantly obvious the FF XV is being made to appeal to women and yet it is somehow sexist. Do you get angry that Magic Mike just has too many male strippers as well?

FFS, there's ALREADY yaoi fanfic that I am hesitant to link here. It isn't even out yet.

and this: https://www.tumblr.com/search/noctis%20x%20prompto

>Yes! That is my understanding of events. If you can prove me wrong I'd honestly appreciate it

You're wrong. That particular sockpuppet was created using a stock photo that's been around at least since 2008.

To clarify: I did absolutely nothing to Samantha Allen, but according to Brianna Wu's lies, Gamergate drove her out of tech. Note that this occurred pre-Gamergate.

I don't want bigots being paid to spread their filth around

Vox Day might be different than her. I didn't know of him pre-GG, and I have no idea if he's a legitimate author being maligned for his bigoted political views or someone who spreads his bigotry through his fiction. If the latter, he can fuck off too, but I'm not going to judge until I can find a book of his somewhere and flip through it.

>No, it's not. Hardly anybody will be moved to your cause by a narrative centering on somebody who read a bad review and wasted fifty bucks on a video game.

30k ish subs on KiA seem to disagree.

>Most people who have experienced real poverty or injustice will have gained the perspective to understand that that's not real suffering.

So I guess people who bought cars with odometers rolled back aren't suffering either.

>They're not waiting around for people to rescue them, they're publicly calling on people to join them by presenting themselves to be faces for their cause.

https://www.patreon.com/zoe

http://www.feministfrequency.com/donate/

seems to me they're just calling on people to join money to their bank accounts.

it is just about the stupidest thing ever that anybody who has encountered internet trolling before is even pretending that this is believable or actually threatening

stop being disingenuous drama fiends. it is extremely transparent and pathetic as fuck

seriously anybody who is the least bit acquainted with internet trolling and is acting like this is anything to take seriously is being 100% intellectually dishonest

OP i'm calling you and anyone who agrees with you out on your shit. you're a jerk for trying to make this into an issue, straight up. stop being a disinegnuous asshole

your dishonesty is insulting, do you really think everyone's that dumb?

https://www.patreon.com/parkourdude91

i do not believe for a second that you are actually taking this person seriously and are not feigning concern. what he's doing is joking-- what you're doing is concern trolling

> Do you think we could stop pretending like this isn't something we all should be worried about?

you stop pretending it is. concern trolling of this degree is seriously condescending

How To Win Friends and Influence People was an early The Game. Interesting. To me I don't use tricks. Turns out if you treat people like people you tend to remember their name. Helps if you can remember to treat them like people. Also just say their name out loud three times within the first five minutes of meeting them. 😉

There's also this:

https://medium.com/@cainejw/dishonesty-feminist-frequency-part-1-fe937f6a791e

and this (this one is still in progress):

http://metaleater.com/video-games/feature/why-feminist-frequency-almost-made-me-quit-writing-about-video-games-part-1

> how Gjoni responded to what happened to him was his prerogative

Sure. No one's disputing that. What I'm saying is that it was a cowardly, vengeful action. He has the free choice to make that decision, but his free will isn't an interesting topic to discuss.

> And as I understand it, he tried to post it on SA originally, then posted it on Tumblr when they refused it.

According to GamerGate Launched in My Apartment, it was originally on SA, then deleted, though I think that may mean a link was posted on SA and then deleted.

> Since diversity in gaming is basically a non issue, yes they are.

2500 devs think it's an issue. "It is the diversity of our community that allows games to flourish."

Did you read Foldable Human's write-up on it? There are images on 8chan that are exploitative of children. There are commenters in those threads talking about abducting kids.

game length has something to do with the amount of content you can put into a game. you can't tell a good story in less than a millisecond. here is a short game. could you play a good game in the time it took you to beat the game? http://www.kongregate.com/games/IncredibleApe/escape

One partner at Kleiner Perkins is worth $4 billion.

http://www.forbes.com/profile/john-doerr/

One.

It's not even comparable.

Also, here's a funny thing he said http://www.marketwatch.com/story/kleiner-perkins-at-it-again-with-partners-tactless-diversity-comment-2015-09-22?siteid=rss&rss=1

> But one comment Doerr made on recruiting and the company’s newest hires didn’t sit well with the broader tech community.

> “We have two partners who are so diverse, I have a challenge pronouncing their names,” Doerr said onstage.

> Those partners are Swati Mylavarapu and Muzzammil Zaveri.

Sounds great.

Heads up, this guy is...well, just read his comment to someone else talking about Hokes.

>Okay, you know what? I'm done with my god damn fucking bullshit work now, so I'll god damn respond to your bullshit.

>Hokes' fucking post is three god damned sentences long. If you're too fucking lazy to scroll the fuck up and reread the shit, and wonder to yourself "Hmm, which of these three fucking sentences is the one wherein he's making the argument which was quite clearly delineated to me" then you aren't even fucking welcome in this shit because you aren't arguing with one iota of intellectual honesty. You know what the fuck he said and now you're using rhetorical sealioning bullshit to try to make me seem bad for doing more for this subreddit in a fucking hour than you have in your fucking life. So don't give me your clown-shoes bullshit. You don't like the rules? Fine, I don't either, say something about them. Quit expecting me to hand rationalizations to you on a plate when you damn well know you will knock any plate out of my hand.

>If you don't like fucking Hokes, don't like Hokes. That's fine. But don't take your bullshit feud out on me, and don't pretend you're too fucking stupid to see the point I put right in front of your bitch face.

Archive

Why the fuck this guy is a mod is beyond me.

I think there is another indie game that has a very similar dungeon keeper but in a haunted house/horror movie theme. I can't for the life of me find it just now though.

Edit: Found it! http://www.indiedb.com/games/machiavillain

Is eCelebs a thing now?? Ugggh. That is almost as bad as furbabies.

Anyways

I really don't pay attention to any eCelebs. most of them are talking just to hear themselves talk and to get clicks for their webpages. The few that I do pay attention to are the following:

1. Brianna Wu. I listened to their podcast well before GG ever started. I think that she has interesting things to say on games, game development and women in the tech (specifically games) industry.
2. Anita Sarkeesian. I like her videos on Tropes vs Women. She is right way, way more often than she is wrong in her podcasts.
3. Leigh Alexander. I like her writing on games and games culture.

Most of the rest of the famous people in and around GG I ignore. I just don't have time to watch the (what seems like) 6 hours of videos a day that most of the celebrities on GG put out.

Of course, there are a couple of people I really do not like. Chris Kluwe, while he is a genius with profanity, adds nothing but fuel to the fires. Milo is just an opportunist who sees GG as a way of driving views to his columns on Brietbart. Mike Cernovich (sp??) is an opportunistic lawyer who I think gather a hell of a lot of amusement from watching GGers ask him about RICO, the IRS, libel/slander and various other lawsuits that GGers want to bring up.

Oh yeah, also have a fair amount of respect for Totalbiscuit (if he reads this, f*ck cancer, and many well wishes from this canadian) who when he isn't pandering to GG, is doing pretty good reviews. Also mundanematt, who posted an interesting video earlier today lambasting most of GG for flipping out about a 2 year old rumor mentioning Anita working on Mirror's Edge 2.

Know your meme - Vivian James

Various elements present in Vivian James represent 4chan’s /v/ board. So is her sweater striped green and purple, a reference to the Piccolo Dick daily dose images which are widely known on the /v/ board.

/u/myGGthrowaway Thanks from the help of some ruskies, I provide the journal article for everybody's perusal: https://mega.nz/#!DtJihbSA!GdXq--APEkcPan22niJ2CAxDwRfXJX7lRqy-h5AfQQE

/u/Omega_Hephaestus , I think you were interested in reading the paper also.

https://archive.is/7MQ3D

People that are publicly against gamergate getting loads of shit is against gamergate's aims and interferes with our ability to affect games journalism reform. Why would we do anything that diminishes our credibility by allowing you to more accurately label us a hate group? Conversely, can you see why our opponents would do things that allow you to more accurately label us a hate group?

People make Yaoi of every two males in geek culture.

https://www.tumblr.com/search/tyrion%20x%20bronn

That doesn't imply authorial intent.

It seems awfully backwards to take the response of the community and use it to determine authorial intent. There's a lot of very deluded shippers. Would you base that J.K. Rowling intended for a gay May-December romance between Harry and Dumbledore based on fanfiction.net failure?

1. Absolutely fucking terrible.

Having paid mods is "workable" for things like TF2 since hats and skins since all the work is usually done by one person.

When you're talking about stuff like Skyrim where you mods often make use of the work of multiple people you run into a clusterfuck of problems. There's already been an instance of a paid mod using someone's assets without permission. (http://steamcommunity.com/workshop/filedetails/discussion/430324898/611704531887822683/#c611704531888230604)(https://archive.is/JNakq)

Not to mention the general bugs and compatibility issues that you face when using mods, but now you'll lose both time and money if something breaks.

1. Just incorporate a donate button that shows up whenever you download a mod (if the modder chooses to allow donations)

2. Hopefully this will crash and burn and we'll all be able to put it behind us. If it actually gets off the ground then it stands to break the modding community. Also I probably won't even pirate Fallout 4.

> idk, the sheer amount of hateful comments that were left there?

thats what happens when you alienate your potential audience

besides most of it happened after she started deleting genuine criticism

it cannot influence the process

>What is hyperbole for 500, Alex?

so youre saying she exaggerates

>The second part of this statement does not imply the first part of this statement.

unless youre doing a video saying "omg im on the run right now" and its obviously inside your house

>How does she benefit?

donations from angry antis and tv appearances etc

>Yes, it was released before the whole GG fiasco.

why did she have to beg then

>Probably.

im sure all those new steam accounts that voted it up are totally going to buy and play it

maybe once

>Mind telling me how much money she has made from being a victim?

you tell me

>Yes, I know I like to receive death threats and rape threats every day in order to get more attention! It's such a fun experience!

yeah and that would be in question were said threats real

So much for watching the video... I really don't get why people do bullshit DMCA claims it has never and will never work out well.

can't wait to watch the dip here:

http://vidstatsx.com/broteampill/youtube-channel

(162,107 subs)

and here:

https://www.patreon.com/broteam

(1,114.50 per month)

what an idiot...

As a person who was getting quite annoyed that review sites were giving games far too high scores for the longest time (From http://www.tiki-toki.com/timeline/entry/355300/The-Dirty-History-of-Games-Journalism/ , very outdated.) I found that some people thought there wasn't a problem, but I feel there is. It's going to all be based on opinion and personal experiences. I don't have much else to say.

They have found over 40 instances alone on the time line. http://www.tiki-toki.com/timeline/entry/355300/The-Dirty-History-of-Games-Journalism/

Considering a lot of the major games journalism sites have been involved it would be silly to think it doesn't exist anywhere else just because we haven't seen it. We don't know how rampant it is and we are digging to find out. No disclaimers were used in the past.

Again your backtracking to the dick waving on harassment. People pro GG have received syringes and a ton of other people have gotten death threats. This does nothing to further either side.

http://press.gamergate.me/dossier/ They talk about reviewers admitting they get bonuses for better reviews.

Hi,

I posted my responses on Medium. You can read them here and here respectively.

That's nice, are you going to address the charge from a former member of GJP that there was much pressure to fall in line with the groupthink (and he said it in his own article, William Usher was just quoting it), or the fact that we've seen the emails where Ben Kuchera was trying to pressure Greg Tito into censoring the GG thread on the Escapist, a competing publication?

The sticky post on KIA is about emailing a gawker advertiser. The 4th post on KIA is about a kotaku article from 2011. Doesn't seem like everything is all fine between them and kotaku yet.

I thought the only way out for kotaku to make peace was to meet the 11 demands at the bottom of this long article about why kotaku is bad. (polygon was unsalvageable only kotaku got a way out) Why did this person write this long letter if all they had to do was to clean up their act for a bit and everything would be fine?

https://medium.com/@aquapendulum/my-letter-to-jason-schreier-about-gamergate-ethics-f890d357188

• Papers Please : I hated that game. And I loved hating it. It's one of the most well-done piece of art I've seen in quite some time. It's a huge accomplishment, and it makes me proud to be a gamer. There are many way to convey the message of that game, but this one really stands. It's incredibly efficient at it, because you hate playing it like you'd hate your work. And you keep going because, well, that's not like you have a choice... I loved this game.

• MIrror's Edge : If Scandinavian culture in gaming was a thing, Mirror's Edge would be a perfect example. I really view it as a criticism of scandinavian societies and love of "nanny-state" (it reminds me of Den brymmande mannen aka Norway of life, for example) and an overall western tendancy to chose comfort and security over freedom. And yet, the ludonarrative is powerful. The streets are your last bit of freedom, but you have to earn it because at the same times, it's also the place where everything reminds you how the little freedom you have is merely a bug, a failure to attain total totalitarianism. Even the graphic style really serves the narrative and the message.

• REZ : Not so much for its message than for its aesthetics. While not a very powerful form of art, when it was released on Dreamcast was the first time I understood video games could be a form of art.

• Shenmue + Shenmue II : In its art form, it's closer to that of a movie, but it still has both a message and aesthetics, both serving each other.

• The Company of myself : Nothing to say here, just play it. Like, right now. I said right - now. Right. Now.

> That Firefox CEO didn't get there by being a loner

Yeah he did. I knew Brendan pretty well when I worked at Netscape. He was an asshole and impossible to work with.

Brendan was asked to resign by the board before the Prop 8 thing went public, because he was an asshole and impossible to work with. That's why he never had a leadership position even though he was a Mozilla founder and a vital technical lead.

"From the outside, it may seem that the gay-marriage issue brought Eich's CEO career to an abrupt end. But accounts from those with inside knowledge make it apparent the embers were already smoldering. Mozilla's board struggled to find a new CEO, settled hesitantly on Eich, and didn't support him strongly." cnet

Seriously, this is from your link:

>Mia Consalvo, Assistant Professor of Telecommunications at Ohio University, began the session talking about how not to reach women. Right now, women don't tend to buy games at Electronic Boutique, but do buy games on-line or at Wal-Mart. That's because EB is what's called a "male-cultured space" and women don't feel welcome. Women are aware of publicized games but they don't pay attention to the commercials on TV because they seem to know that the ads aren't targeted to them. Often, the woman will play whatever the boyfriend bought. In general, according to Consalvo's research, young middle-class women will play any game but many are repelled by gratuitous violence.

Mia Consalvo is the president of the DiGRA executive board, according to DiGRA's website: https://archive.is/YwfAU

You literally just proved that DiGRA is promoting feminism in the gaming industry. Why do anti-GG people deny this claim and call pro-GG people conspiracy theorists when they bring up DiGRA?

> They just couldn't stop with their MRA talking points and could no longer keep the ethics in video game journalism facade going. So now when you go to /r/kotakuinaction[1] it's basically just a bunch of people complaining about feminist and the communist feminist media.

Currently on the front page of KiA

Two posts of 25 have any association with politics. The first is a pro-feminist Youtuber getting nabbed by the GGautoblocker and the second is concerning political speech that's "ruining games journalism". The rest is directly related to ethics in game journalism.

Forgive me if I don't believe you.

EDIT: Sorry, missed one concerning Kluwe's failure to report a rape allegation.

No there is more then one http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/us/definition/american_english/rape

The word comes from old English for when looters burned a village and then carried of the wealth and woman.

If you read Olsen's article, he didn't mention GG once. Not even in the context of /gg/ or /gamergate/. Here's the link in case you haven't read it.

Do a ctrl-f for "gamergate". I think you'll enjoy the results. You can then search for "gg". Other than "suggest" and "bigger", "gg" doesn't show up at all either.

Despite Olsen not mentioning GG, your side went after him anyways. Yes, Olsen was strongly opposed to GG before writing this article. No, Olsen did not implicate GG in these crimes. At all. But GG decided to defend the pictures and attack Olsen anyways. Which, to any reasonable person, makes a strong connection between GG and this content.

Your side is truly hopeless at the image game.

I'm not handwaving Reddit away. Here's to hoping Olsen will target the seedier side of Reddit next. I'm sure he'll get full support from KiA if he does. (ha!)

https://medium.com/@cainejw/dishonesty-feminist-frequency-part-1-fe937f6a791e

Kind of a long read, but maybe you had this in mind?

> It is clear from their comments that McIntosh and Sarkeesian wish to market the Tropes vs Women series as academic and educational in nature. It is to be used as an authority piece. It is worthy of being an educational aid to be used in educational settings, using academic terms, and not as a representation of creativity such as literature. As this is the case, Feminist Frequency must be judged by academic standards to be worthy of academic, educational use as a piece of research.

> Some note that academic and educational do not mean the same thing. This is an attempt to parse semantics. It is clear that McIntosh and Sarkeesian intend their work to be used at all levels of education. If a work is to be used academically, it must meet the rigorous standards of an academic setting. They have stated that their work is also research-oriented. Accordingly, the work must meet the bare minimum standards of academic and intellectual honesty as defined above.

Well, this took a stupid turn.

> 1. Are you, or have you ever been affiliated with Gamergate or the Gamergate party?

I get you're trying to be cute with this question, but the irony is real. I'm just a guy on a message board arguing ideas. Why the need to label me? Why do I need to identify myself and my motives? Can you not simply reply to the comments within?

> 2. It's actually about...

It doesn't matter what it is to me. GamerGate technically, is a name given to a scandal involving games journalists, corruption, collusion, and group think. Simple as that. That's not my opinion, that's what it is. After the fact, it's been dubbed a "hate movement", by the very same journalists. Curious that.

If you're really curious why don't you take a look at the actual data. Granted that's a cursory analysis of the #GamerGate hashtag on twitter, but it's the best we got as far as painting it as some sort of hate movement. Looks pretty disappointing to me...

No, I'm afraid I'm not going to let you weasel out of your original statement with this.

> I don't hate the people... I hate the movement. The difference being that this isn't a personal attack calling you specifically a misogynist.

No, but an entire swath of people who use #GamerGate tag are misogynist. Yes, that's a much more sound conclusion. They say they're reacting to the corrupt, click-bait, social-vomit we all know as video games journalism but are actually about getting rid of women and minorities. Yep, that sounds right on the money.

Running a four hour season of "Feng Shui" at GenCon UK '96, with out 30 minutes notice, since they had a load of players turn up but only 2 GM's. I'd only bought the rules the day before and read them that night. Got some of my best GM feedback.

Oh and losing Pandemic on the very first turn of the game.

Oh you mean computer games, sorry I'm so hardcore I do it "unplugged".

Books are awesome, but recently been spending way more time reading design stuff then standard books.

If you are looking for a lot of cheap classics for a decent price get the B&N classics

http://www.barnesandnoble.com/collection/cds2.asp?pid=11502

I have pretty much all of these they fit into a very small space which is rather important and most of them you can easily carry around in a pocket.

Also if space isn't an issue I suggest taking a look at the wheel of time series massive amount of text but well worth the read.

Ah, that was not clear originally

>which is like me saying "LOOK AT THIS GAME (https://www.patreon.com/Amorous?ty=h) IT'S ALL ABOUT FUCKING ANIMALS!!!" Without giving the context about the game characters being anthropomorphic animals.

Is there an okay kind of rape that this game is about?

> My point was if it wasn't so serious and wrong to target your audience they wouldn't even do anything about it.

But nobody targeted their entire audience. Journalists called out a tiny subset of gamers (who may or may not be their audience, I wonder how many people calling on Intel to leave Gamasutra even read Gamasutra before all this) for doing douchey things (harassing, doxxing, death threats). They were right to do this; harassment is a huge problem that needs to stop. The counter attack was misguided, and when Intel realized this they showed support again for Gamasutra.

> At least let them talk about it, don't censor and hope it will go away.

Do you consider pressuring advertisers to pull funding from a website that relies on ad revenue censorship?

> People got irritated they couldn't discuss about it anywhere.

Who couldn't discuss what anymore? Twitter was filled with gamergate posts. Some private message boards like 4chan started deleting threads because of doxxing concerns, is that what you're thinking of?

Regarding sock puppet accounts -- that's fine if you don't think that happened at all. If the stock photos taken from other sites, unusually high number of newly created Twitter accounts (https://medium.com/message/72-hours-of-gamergate-e00513f7cf5d), and screenshots of people encouraging sock accounts and giving instructions on how to create them (http://www.onehundredyearhorizons.com/sock-puppets-and-gamergate-depravity/) aren't convincing, that's fine.

Of course I'm not saying every tweet was illegitimate or no women or minorities support gamergate, but I fully believe there is some sock puppetry and disinformation going on to rile up people and scare advertisers.

Same thing as a guppygulp. Honestly I think Chris Kluwe was the one that said goitergoat or something really similar to that in regards to GGers. It just kind of stuck. Either in this article: https://medium.com/the-cauldron/why-gamergaters-piss-me-the-f-off-a7e4c7f6d8a6

Or in one of his hilarious tweets calling GGers out for their insanity.

Then I think you're just missing something. Not sure where to go from here when it's straight forward like this. Perhaps this account would help?

The relationships weren't the problem. here is a great write up about what happened with zoey.

It was the fact she used the relationship to get leverage in her game jam, and get mentioned in a top 50's list.

You missed the part where she was an initiator. Here is a great write up about the catalyst

So wait a minute. You're mad that the people you're attacking are upset that you're attacking them? Really?

Okay, okay, fine. Where did it start with, though? They didn't start acting defensive against GG before GG even existed in the first place.

>while other games that were in all respects good but they objected to the look of the main character earned a significantly lower score.

"The main character being sexualized dampened my enjoyment of the game and I couldn't really get into it as a result, so it gets a 7.5/10 from me."

Yeah, no, that seems just fine.

>Pretty much the strategy seems to be they change their ethics

THEY HAVE. You realize just how many gaming sites have updated their codes of ethics in the last two months, right? No, of course you haven't, because you seriously don't actually care about that.

Please, read this. Notably, the entire last half.

You're kidding me, right?

http://www.alexa.com/siteinfo/gamasutra.com

> Why waste it on a hashtag with no more than 10K active supporters?

He says about the subreddit with over 23,000 subscribers.

Sorry, but you're living in a complete fantasy world. How the hell you can go from "HEY GUYS LOOK AT THIS SITE COME ON LET'S GO HERE EVERYONE FOLLOW ME REDDIT IS KILL" to "Yeah, Gamergate has failed" baffles me.

Seriously. You're coming off as someone who is extremely butthurt that nobody listened to their "sky is falling" screams, and is now making a huge fuss over how "nothing was accomplished", while lying about easily verifiable facts.

> Can we say for the sake of argument that there is at least one person?

No.

>I guess if that doesn't convince you, I'd be willing to substitute the "killallmen unironically" part for this post which proves my point equally well: https://archive.is/iITfR

I don't think it does since it's not in any way condoning violence against men? Linking a post which doesn't advocate violence and saying it's equally as damning as someone calling for the genocide of half the planet is just a tiny bit disingenuous.

>Was the joke addressing Adria in any way?

Hm. No:

> Have you ever had a group of men sitting right behind you making joke that caused you to feel uncomfortable? Well, that just happened this week but instead of shrinking down in my seat, I did something about it an here’s my story…

Hm. Yes:

> The guy behind me to the far left was saying he didn’t find much value from the logging session that day. I agreed with him so I turned around and said so. [...] He said he would be interested in forking the repo and continuing development. That would have been fine until the guy next to him… began making sexual forking jokes

source my opinion is that it was not directed at her but I wasn't there.

Have you read the GG Dossier at all? You may find some interesting things in there. It's missing some information that came out later, but it's still pretty good. This isn't too bad either: http://www.tiki-toki.com/timeline/entry/355300/The-Dirty-History-of-Games-Journalism/

The information is out there.

If you're willing to not take claims at face value (regardless of which side their source is on) but do your own research and come to your own conclusions, here are two good places to start off the top of my head:

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLM9L2W5aOI_1zFJPiJST1GpxOTP-qomDS

http://www.tiki-toki.com/timeline/entry/343871/Corruption-consumer-hate-and-bad-journalism-in-games-journalism/

Not for doing anythong amoral : the raid was linked to copyright infringement. And correct me if I'm wrong, but I think the swedish police didn't actually go after PRQ : they were after sites hosted by PRQ and seized the servers to gather evidence.

That's pretty different than a vigilante crowd going "yeah well, I know they're not doing anything illegal BUT..." (although PRQ did get their share of criticism but people seem to have gotten it by now).

https://medium.com/@cainejw/an-actual-statistical-analysis-of-gamergate-dfd809858f68 includes analysis of the data they used; specifically the newsweek data that was debunked literally the day it was posted months ago. Will go look for the other stuff later bout to head home finally.

Do you think it's just as likely that a random attendant at a child pageant is a pedophile (as opposed to just one of the parents) as it is that a poster on a child porn hub is? Do these really seem like equal coin flips to you?? Posters that say things like "I'm assuming it was taken down since the girl looked to be under 5yo. Was a picture of a family on vacation Dad/Girl/Mom. Girl in said picture had a super nice small thong on and it was a picture from behind. Glorious ass.": https://medium.com/@FoldableHuman/the-mods-are-always-asleep-7f750f879fc

> Must be outdated:

Because language matters (and I've seen this as a sticking point before) this is what the OED says.

Dislike of, contempt for, or ingrained prejudice against women http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/misogyny

What dictionaries do you use? Racism is about race, not about sexual orientation.

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/racism

> poor treatment of or violence against people because of their race

> the belief that some races of people are better than others

http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/racism

> a belief that race is the primary determinant of human traits and capacities and that racial differences produce an inherent superiority of a particular race

> Prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism directed against someone of a different race based on the belief that one’s own race is superior

I'm not trying to be pedantic, his conclussion: "racism can't ruin businesses" isn't supported by his premise: "Chick-Fil-A's business wasn't ruined by homophobia", because racism =/= homophobia.

Or maybe he actually believes homosexuals are from another race (which would be homophobic), hence my question.

No no no. YOU made the statement YOU back up the statement with proof.

Put the shovel down and step away from that goalpost.

You made the claims, you prove them, I don't have any requirement to prove your points to you.

Hmm discussing the example that anti-gg trots out of a 100% objective review and where it is in error from 2012

http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/619315-final-fantasy-xiii-2/61707705

To an extent, I agree but not completely. There have been plenty of examples of a company having to play damage control over a public facing employee being an idiot LONG before GG happened.

Hell here is a link from 2009 http://mashable.com/2009/07/09/social-media-damage-control/

Was the bully tweet a joke? Was it baiting? Was it serious? Gawker and Sam say it was a joke but I doubt ANY even semi-rational person would double down the stupid by saying it was serious and try to take on the ENTIRE internet.

No matter what you think, Sam or Gawker says, it was NOT acceptable no matter who it was directed at. That one is really hard to justify as a faux controversy. Some of the others? Completely agree. The Anti (and articles) attacks of Adobe and Intel being an example of valid concerns being converted to pitchforks and torches.

The problem is compounded when you have shedloads of people just looking for a "problem". See Mob mentality for an example.

Part of the problem though is that the outrage over the shirt, IS an ACTUAL atrocity according to many people. Anyone calling the outrage a joke is offending, attacking and/or insulting those views and therefore is a misogynist, etc. and then more "radical", or emphatic or trolls or well meaning but underinformed are rallying EVERYONE to arms on both sides.

This is EXACTLY why there is such difficulty in discussion and so much gray area that is FORCED to be black or white.

> I mean stereotypes were used and then specifically called not representative, I don't know what else you want her to do.

No. She said they don't have to be representative. IE Fight the power.

>I mean she obviously thought of the effect of the rhetoric seeing how she talked about "gamers" instead of gamers, yet somehow it's still an attack.

Because her friends despise the term.

> Lol, well he is just one person, and I don't see it.

So you haven't seen this? Nor have you seen how so many 'games journalists' parrot similar points or in agreement with him? You know, stuff like this.

>What does this even mean? This is nonsense.

It means either whatever -ism or -ogony things are being labeled with this week is bad, or its merely a descriptor and doesn't carry a moral judgement. If its the former, then clearly Femfreq and company want to take away games ala Thompson. If its the latter then its at best an abuse of language and various parties should stop being assholes and abusing it. Abuse is never ok. :)

Please don't link to TVTropes.

>It's the job of a good critic to recognize and acknowledge excellence as they see it, not to pander to their audience.

Curious. I didn't say anything about critics needing to pander to their audience.

>Gone Home sold over 250,000 copies as of last February

Of course. Why wouldn't a controversial game sell reasonably well?

Steam user averages work differently from those of places like Metacritic or GameFAQs. Unlike those places, where users give a numerical score, Steam users follow a Rotten Tomatoes system of "like" or "dislike" -- which doesn't give us a precise picture of how gamers feel. As an example, here's a snippet from a top Recommended review on Steam:

>I got this game when it was on sale for $4.99 and I'd definitely recommend it at that price; had I bought it at $20, I'd probably feel a little less thumbs uppy. So this is a recommendation with an asterisk.

This user recommends Gone Home on the condition of a five buck price tag -- a meager twenty dollar price tag for this critically acclaimed product would have swayed him away from recommending. I'm sure much of the Recommended section reads similarly. Yet his review is counted just as strongly in favor of Gone Home as the person who believes it's a timeless masterpiece that pushes the medium forward.

Breitbart is open about their conservative bias:

>Founded in 2005 by conservative icon Andrew Breitbart, Breitbart News Network is the biggest source of breaking news and analysis, thought-leading commentary, and original reporting curated and written specifically for the new generation of independent and conservative thinkers.

Source: https://archive.is/da2GO

This: https://medium.com/@socialunjustice/how-gamerghazis-campaign-of-hate-nearly-ruined-my-life-8783ffd94b86

It led to ghazi changing their rules so that I and others would'nt be targeted anymore.

The big thing to start with would be the medium article that went up recently. The biggest issue we have is pretty much everyone except Zoe and her crew are under gag orders. I almost wonder if it would be possible to appeal to the higher ups and see if gag orders could be lifted if it could be shown that it would professionally kill the credibility of the people who wrecked a half million dollar show with major sponsors. If the gag orders can't be rescinded I'm really not sure how much factually can actually come out.

https://medium.com/@socialunjustice/game_jam-and-zoe-quinn-what-are-they-hiding-f711b544d00a if you don't already have it also includes a link to the original 8 chan thread.

Like I said the issue is the gag orders pretty much everyone is under.

> https://medium.com/@cainejw/dishonesty-feminist-frequency-part-1-fe937f6a791e

I've gone through the first one before, and I think that the poster of these articles is wrong on many, many points. I will see later if I can find it.

See, but that's quite the accusation you throw around.

What exactly is the unified message? I've read the leaked e-mails. There doesn't seem to be a unified agreement between everyone there at all.

Many of them stated they decided as of their first e-mail whether or not to cover the story. There was some discussion about what to do about the Escapist forums for example and the writer there specifically went against some others. Some of them certainly have strong opinions they aren't shy about stating, but we're missing the bit where they all agree to push a unified message.

I thought this was an interesting criticism of them (written by a member of the list). But even there he stops short of calling it a conspiracy, and rather a criticises the closeness of the gaming press.