I'm tired of this victim mentality man. Fuck.

Give women a reason to fuck you. They don't owe you shit. Everyone, including you, is out for themselves. So make yourself attractive, for yourself and for the women you're attracted to.

Work out, get in shape. Also important, groom yourself, it's not expensive to buy proper fitting clothes. Look up male fashion trends and dress well, get a nice haircut that suits you. Find a look that works for you.

Build a personality, build a life. Easiest way? Get hobbies outside of anime and video games. Go out hiking, biking, running, join a rec sports league, read books. Start a business, take free online courses, fuck, just do something productive rather than waste your time jerking off. In fact, stop jerking off altogether.

If you're at the point of killing yourself, then what do you have to lose? Give it a shot, who knows, you just might find what you're looking for.

The great advantage of being a man? Your looks matter little to none. It's all about how you make a woman feel. So grow kindness in your heart, that shit is attractive to women. Care, and give, but don't expect anything in return.

Books to read: Models by Mark Manson, No More Mr. Nice Guy.

Those cards are terrible. Don't use them. Never use business cards.

When it comes time to get a girl's number, take your phone and put it in her hand. This is just as effective as it is easy.

Make and hold eye contact with everyone. Hold it longer with women you are attracted to. If a girl holds eye contact with you, treat it as an invitation and approach.

Here's something I got from How To Win Friends and Influence People: Take a genuine interest in everyone you meet. Women love to talk about themselves. Don't worry about DHV. It's overrated.

Don't be needy. Try to develop an abundance mentality. You're out to have fun and you're giving people the honor of having fun with you.

Have fun.

Don't be afraid to touch people.

At the end of the night, take a few minutes and think about the interactions you had. What went well? What was terrible? How can you improve?

http://genius.com/287242

How long have you been "chasing" this girl, putting up with her games? Any longer than two months and my recommendation is to write her off, you clearly don't have a set of solid prospects or options or else you wouldn't be so excited to post such a far fetched comment on the boards. I've had girls in the past with boyfriends who "Wish I was their boyfriend, blah blah blah, romantic monologue BS..."

Not one of them turned out to be my girlfriend, my girlfriends tend to be girls who genuinely are interested and excited about me, sexually available, be it upon meeting me, and I move them fast onto a date and push for a close - I don't disappoint them and twiddle my thumbs for weeks.

Your mind wants to be free, it doesn't want to be imprisoned by a whisper of this girl, but sadly it wants hope more often than freedom. The only answer here is to meet women, lots, and you'll end up with a great girl eventually. Is that what your emotions want? Hell no, it wants to keep her around and keep that shred of hope alive - but logically, intellectually - what's better? One girl you hope one day will "realize how shitty her boyfriend is" or three very pretty girls all very excited about meeting you and having three dates scheduled next week?

>>stop looking at her through goggles, forget about her, ignore her, she sounds like a cancer.

Nicely said, please, it's easier than you think, just stop ruminating on what could be and go make something happen out there.

Read Models by Mark Manson. This book is frequently brought up on this sub for a good reason. It's more about working on yourself to becoming an attractive person instead of relying on PUA techniques to get women.

If you are seriously not being yourself then not only are you failing at seduction, but you are also failing yourself.

>still wanna get coffee/still trying to get ice cream tonight

that doesn't sound attractive at all. It's this bare request, kind of going back to a logical lockdown earlier and most importantly, it comes from a frame that you didn't think the date was fixed. she'll turn around on you if you let her call the shots.

Next time, call or at least write something like:

hey, I found a great spot for coffee, it's there and there, let's go there. Should we say 6?

and even better, refer to something in your interaction, inside joke, nickname etc. Even if she was attracted when you met her, she's been out and talking to her cock-block-trigger-happy friends and so on.

You have to revive the attraction from the meeting you had, when you got the number.

Also, read this admittedly long but incredibly entertaining and helpful set of field reports from Brad P, who's got some good insights on the inevitability of flaking and how you should take it.

Number One Mistake: Becoming judgemental and reactive as in

>Nah I don't mess with flakes.

Punish her for not complying, but don't throw her away entirely. Maybe next time, don't react at all and see if she goes after you.

strictly follow a 'fire and forget' strategy for texting. no looking at the phone if she answered, no judging her according to the time she takes to respond...nothing of that. non-reactivity which stems from abundance mentality.

And, one killer line for flakes, I've learned here on seddit is the following:

you don't get any answer (esp. after a proposition for something like going to a museum etc.), so after a while, you'll write her:

Hey, I didn't hear from you so I went ahead and asked somebody else. I'll make it up to you!

which has gotten me quite a number of 'Oh, hey, my phone was dead, sorry, I read your message too late' messages within minutes.

Average betas. Lol. You should really give up on that bullshit term. There is no such thing, and people have very different ideas of what beta and alpha behaviour is. But seeing that you didn't kiss her, even though you could have - I don't think that's "alpha" behaviour in anyones book.

Dude you know what they want to do - The boys are there because they are hoping for some insane orgy. That's how it is.

First of all; You are way too invested in this girl. It's not going to do you any good. Second; A movie theatre is not a good venue for a first date. Third; I'm sure she isn't having an orgy. Fourth; Invite her for a second date, and this time do what you want to do. If you feel like kissing her, then do it!

I'll recommend you to read Models by Mark Manson.

Pros: Gets you to realize that women want sex, and seducing them is actually not terribly difficult, so you should try it.

Cons: The methods are mostly based on deception or canned formulas, which are completely inauthentic. He eventually started resenting women for falling for his formula/tricks.

That being said, I think it is absolutely worth the read, so long as you follow up with Models by Mark Manson after wards.

TL;DR Read Models by Mark Manson.

Yes. It's great that you've put yourself out there and are taking action. Most people struggle with that, preferring to read far too many books and forum posts to avoid actually putting themselves out there.

However, books can help you focus your actions by correcting mistakes and giving you a long term plan.

I'd recommend Models by Mark Manson over anything else I've read or seen. It's an honest approach to seduction about self-development and vulnerability. If you want to improve yourself, your life, and your relationships, read it. Also check out The Subtle Art of Not Giving a Fuck.

Others, like The Game, The Mystery Method, The Art of Seduction, etc. are based on manipulation. I didn't gain much from The Game or MM, but AoS has some useful information. AoS has a nice list of unattractive behaviors and emphasizes playfulness, ie it's a game, don't take it so seriously.

Others have said The Way of The Superior Man helped them with developing a masculine mindset. It's been a while, but remember it having lots of thought-provoking concepts while also having rape-esque "she might not say it, but she wants it, give it to her" diatribe.

Best of luck!

It's not too late. I was in your shoes once, I decided to get this handled, fast forward, and I walked into a bar st 130, approached a girl, and walked out with her at 330. There are plenty of resources telling you what to do (I recommend Models by Mark Manson). The biggest thing is to just make moves. You say you don't know how to ask a girl out. If you meet a girl that you like and talk to her for five minute, pull out your phone, and say, "we should get a drink. Give me your number"

Good inner game material doesn't have to be built specifically for seduction or pick up. In fact, the best I've found hasn't been related to seduction at all. Anything that gives you a goal or direction in improving yourself and the ideas to get there can help. Furthermore, it's nice to step outside of the realm of pick up when working on yourself -- too much focus on it will cause you to place your worth on your success rate, and no one runs a perfect game every day.

Mindfulness in Plain English rocks; it's not religious at all, teaches you how to maintain calm and develop understanding, and it has a side-effect of making you less outcome-dependent. Because of it, I've reached a comprehension of myself, my desires, my strengths, and my weaknesses that opened up the floodgates for confidence and self-improvement.

The Art of Manliness is a fucking awesome website. It has a lot of funny shit and cool party tricks/knowledge, but it also has hundreds of articles on what it means to be a man and how to get there. After a little while of looking through it and really thinking about all of its concepts, I felt more prepared to deal with women -- and life in general -- than ever before.

Anymore, I just use my hobbies, interests, work, and charity to maintain inner game. I still reflect back on the different lessons I learned from those writings, but a good inner game is much more about getting shit done and being satisfied with yourself than it is holding a mindset of, "I love myself! I'm a great guy! I'm so alpha!"

NEVER be judgemental. read up on the adventures of Brad P. There are some great field reports (around 2/3s in the book) about a really flakey girl. the hotter they get, the more they tend to flake and not write back. It's the hot-girl-reality, there's so much other shit...even if you have the tightest game it happens all the time. you can't let it faze you.

link to the e-book.

• Models by Mark Manson.
• "The Blueprint Decoded" by real social dynamics
• TofuTofu's series of posts on this subredditcalled "above the game". Might be called "beyond the game".

I've been more or less involved in PUA stuff since "the game" came out and have paid attention and have watched the advice change. You need to get away from "canned material". That shit is a crutch and you know it.

Canned material is stuff you use to pretend like you're more smooth than you are, that you have the perfect witty response to every situation. It not only feels fake to people you use it on, but what do you do when you run out of material? Look for more on a never ending quest to replace your personality with lines someone else thought of? At some point you have to have a real conversation with the girl and if you don't know how to be an attractive guy without the lines and routines and tricks, no one is going to stay once those run out.

A few years ago the advice on here was largely inner game with a good mix of outer game stuff. Nothing manipulative, just logistics and good old common sense stuff. I don't know what happened to the subreddit since then, it feels like a ghost town. But I've been reading dating advice on here /other places and going out practicing it for about 8 years now, and those three resources are by far the best ive found in all that time.

Models by Mark Manson for sure, sounds exactly like what your looking for. Best book I've ever read. Second to that I think you'd like No More Mr. Nice Guy by Robert Glover. Haven't read that one yet but it sounds appropriate too.

Read Models by Mark Manson. You can do it in a few days. Better yourself, become confident, then start approaching like your life depends on it. You're in the best years of your life, don't potentially miss a chance at catching herpes because you were scared to approach.

1. Funny and sexy are two totally different things. It's good that you're becoming comfortable interacting with women, but jokes aren't what's gonna get her pants off. Don't be a dancing monkey.

2. When this happens, I either amplify by formally adopting the persona of a comedian for a second. I might bow or say a cliche like, "Thank you, you've been a wonderful audience. Don't forget to tip your server!" The other option is to flip the script completely and get super serious.

3. After brushing aside the compliment (which may or may not have been sincere), I'll start a new topic of conversation and probably not crack any more jokes for awhile.

There are a lot of resources out there that can give you tips on how to flirt. Videos are good, but I highly recommend reading. Start with Models by Mark Manson. Give that a shot and see where it gets you.

What everyone else has commented so far is decent advice but life experiences and reading more won't necessarily make you better. Those two things are more contextual; certain types of life experiences and books are more useful than others. For example, I suggest reading up books on body language.

SUGGESTED READING

• Models by Mark Manson

• How to Win Friends & Influence People by Dale Carnegie

• How to Read Every BODY by Joe Navarro

You should watch How to Hold a Conversation like a Man by Nick Sparks on youtube. Those 3 books above are heavily recommended but you should at the very minimum watch this video.

As for your school experiences and past, I may be wrong but every single person on this sub has been through the exact same shit hence why this community was even created. In other words, no one cares about your pity party past. Just focus on your future.

Read No More Mr.Nice Guy. Also Models by Mark Manson.

You wanting be in a relationship is not a reason for a girl to want to date you. You wanting someone to love, take care, and make you feel less lonely is not a reason a girl will want to date you. These are reasons YOU want to be in a relationship, and very needy reasons. It says something is missing in my life, and I would like a relationship to fill this whole. That's a lot of pressure to put on a partner, and a relationship.

You're in high school. Pursue your passions, and date as much as possible. If it turns into a full fledged relationship, great. If not, you need to be ok with that too, especially being as young as you are.

Sounds like you're first starting out. Stop chasing a girlfriend and learn how to date. You don't just become someone's boyfriend, it happens if you're compatible, y'all have the talk and she agrees to being exclusive. You'll have to date a ton of people before becoming compatible.

Get a gym membership and start working on yourself. I get the feeling you've never really talked to women within a sexual context.

Go read Models by Mark Manson and How to Win Friends and Influence People by Dale Carnegie. You have a lot of work ahead of you.

Sorry, I didn't read your entire post. While skimming through it, I noticed you use the HB metric alot.

Stop rating girls.

If you rate girls, that means that you view some women as superior to others. Meaning that with this system in place, you're inherently placing some women on a pedestal.

Use the binary rating scale instead. A girl's a 0 if she's unattractive and a 1 if she's attractive.

A woman, regardless of how hot she is, is just a woman. There's nothing fundamentally different about her as a human being and the same basic principles of human interaction apply to her as they would to any other girl.

And if you haven't already, read Models by Mark Manson.

Similar story here, I got my first kiss at 18 and lost the v-card at 19.

Read Models by Mark Manson and keep putting yourself out there. It's up to you to take the initiative. If you don't take action, don't expect anything to change.

Definitely your best option bro. 1. NO one can EVER convince another to change their mind about a relationship. Attraction is not a choice. Besides, if she wanted that level with you, things would've escalated by now. 2. Move on. Quickly. It's gonna be tough because you're roomies, but dating other women will give you the abundance mentality, and you'll be better off in the long run. You should always treat yourself as a prize. You're worth more than trying to compete for a girl's attention. If she wants you, she wants you. No need to play games. My recommendation is to also read Models by Mark Manson. Best book for becoming a modern man ever.

Yeah, Models by Mark Manson. It teaches you so much that other material doesn't even glance over.

Also start watching some RSD videos on YouTube, yeah they have expensive bootcamps and material you can buy, but they also put out a lot of (really good) free stuff. My favorite instructors are probably Julien, Tyler, Brad and Todd.

And coming from a guy with experience, even the most beautiful girls appreciate a good compliment on their looks - 99.99% of girls are self-conscious about something and the ballsiest thing isn't to let her feel weak - it's to help her feel strong.

"Part of me knows that could be beta and part of me wants to demonstrate that I really appreciate the girl and make her feel special. Is there an elegant way to build attachment through flattery?"

Read How To Win Friends and Influence People by Dale Carnegie. And stop using words like "beta." Everyone who does sounds like a tool.

Consult the DiCarlo escalation ladder for physical guidelines. Will help you wonders.

In terms of conversation, just think in advance about a few main things you'd like to know about her. Other than those main talking points, lead the conversation as if you were just talking to a female friend.

If you think she'll get it, go with your gut and be funny in your way. Read the response and if it's not working, adjust: one misplaced joke won't kill the date (assuming you're staying clear of obvious taboos).

> No one uses fb anymore, it is dying.

Umm, no. Just no. Facebook is not "dying." Their daily active user count was up 27% last quarter. Source

As to OP... Add anyone and everyone. Does it hurt you to do so?

This will help you to become better at talking with girl on the street or in the mall: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nHGfgs3R_Mg

Just start talking with girls that works in the mall. They have to talk with you...

Other ideas are start at a yoga class, or something where there is a good ratio of girls. Yoga is around 75-90% girls.

Here is my book about what to do on a date: https://www.scribd.com/doc/233948607/JesperSB-What-to-say-on-a-date-How-to-show-the-real-you

No, don't tell her how you feel. That gives her the power to choose you.

Run the game like any other girls. Show high value, Create connection, and have some sexual jokes, so she think of you and sex.

Here is my Free E-book, to give you some ideas: https://www.scribd.com/doc/233948607/JesperSB-What-to-say-on-a-date-How-to-show-the-real-you

Might be better to ask r/okcupid.

My best results have all followed this formula: just a few messages back and forth online, get her number, text a little (more messages than online, but shorter), then meet in person.

But I don't think there's any consensus on this. I have a female acquaintance whose OkCupid inbox has several long conversations that she's engaged in, with only two moving towards actual meetups so far. Of those two, the one she was most excited about was some guy she'd had a ridiculously long conversation with... their most recent messages were about 16 paragraphs each and required significant scrolling to read! I never write nearly that much on OkCupid, but I guess it can work.

I would suspect that if a girl's interest is waning after you ask to meet them, it's because she had no intention of ever meeting you -- she might show less interest not because you asked too soon, but because the conversation changed from "just an online chat" to "chatting with someone who wants to meet me".

Bear in mind that my answer is highly speculative; I'd like to hear a female's perspective on this (which you're less likely to find in this subreddit).

Check whats in your steam libraries, I guess?

Maybe not the most seddit of advice, as far as bedpost notches are concerned, but if you're not comfortable with in person dates and are looking for something longer term, playing games together is probably not a bad idea. You can chat/video chat, and since you have an objective you already have something to talk about. Anything from a low pressure game of minecraft to a destiny raid or whatever, depending on interests.

Personally, I hate coffee dates for the same reason. I always preferred walks, disc golf, something mildly active where there's a goal other than just talking even pre-covid. It's a lot easier to have a conversation when you have something to react to all the time. At least for me. Might be different for extroverted people.

As far as getting to that point, You'll probably want to start with something smaller, like what I assume skribbl.io is. Probably don't wanna bust out the big guns when it comes to gaming up front, because there is still a stigma against gamers. Which is kinda dumb because I'm pretty sure everyone under the age of 50 plays video games now, but social trends die hard and things like gamergate don't do gamers any favors. I definitely don't start talking about the 9,000+ hours I've put into Factorio until like the 5th date.

Don't worry about it - it's hard getting attention as a guy until you have it dialed in. Like MiniGoat_King says consistency helps. If nightclubs are your thing, going to the same place over and over means you'll get to know the other regulars, girls will remember you etc.

​

Sounds like you need more general social stuff though. Try meetup.com or other hobbies/clubs. Find a local lair if you want some wingmen for the clubs. Moving city as a single guy can be a big change - new job, new location, new friends - it's a lot all at once. Get socialising, be consistent, and you'll start to find your place.

​

Good luck!

Open Her was a big one for me to find ways to increase my value. It’s really good for showing a range of different possibilities for being a high value man, which aren’t stuck in simplistic notions of value like physical appearance and financial status.

Nope, it's just your obsessive compulsive disorder combined with your body dysmorphia disorder.

It's OCD because you keep posting this same thing over and over. Read Brain Lock by Jeffrey Schwartz to help get it under control.

You look slightly older, which I should hope so because 5-6 years has passed. I'd be worried if you didn't look older at all. It's normal for people to look older when several years pass. It's called aging. It happens to everyone. It's normal. Some guys have gone fully bald in the same time span. You're lucky you still have hair.

Go read Models by Mark Manson. And The Subtle Art of Not Giving a Fuck. There’s nothing wrong with working on your seduction skills in order to become more successful with women. There will be many more setbacks and rejections. I’ve been rejected upwards of 500 times, and probably get some reception from 1/10 girls, and “success” with 1/20. Successful dating for men is more about how well they deal with and learn from rejection, than anything else. How you deal with these times in your life are defining moments. You can give up or you can go fucking own your life. Which guy do you want to be?

Fresh out of a 20+ year marriage and you want to be brought up to speed in one post? That's pretty ambitious.

Dating is very different than when you were last single. Social media, world wide connectivity, and another sexual revolution are just a few things that have changed the dating landscape. In other words, to be 'brought up to speed' requires a great deal of investment on your part to learn what modern romance entails.

If you haven't yet, start reading some of the suggested books. Models by Mark Manson is a great primer that can help one understand seduction and dating. I highly recommend Aziz Ansari's book, Modern Romance as well. It's well researched and can give a great narrative of current dating culture around the world.

Hooking up with a bunch of women isn't that hard to do in reality. Seducing quality women with their consent is much more difficult.

Oh and just so you know, women are sexual beings that enjoy sex. Some enjoy casual sex. They are not lesser beings because of these facts. Your mindset is incorrect, but hopefully it can be changed.

> I just graduated with a business degree I just need to find a job and my own place and I think I will be a little better off, but time is running out because I am 25.

First off, you're not running out of time for anything. You feel pressure, but don't let it control you to make bad decisions because you rush things.

You have bigger issues at the moment, finding a job and a place to live. These two things are qualifiers to get even the slightest bit of interest from women. If you manage to start talking to women that you find attractive, you'll find they very quickly ask things like "What do you do for a living?" or "Where do you live?" If you answer with " I'm looking for work" or "I live with my parents" that will instantly kill most women's attraction to you, no matter if you're in shape. To emphasize my point, you have more important needs that need to be met before dating.

If you want to date or find yourself a girlfriend, then you need to be able to demonstrate social value. You said you have "a good body" but that isn't enough. You need to be able to effectively communicate with women, which is far more important that how many abs you have or your body fat percentage. This means focus on making friends, striking up conversations, and becoming a socially competent person (this isn't as easy as it sounds, and most men are socially incompetent, for reference).

Since you have some free time while looking for work and a place to live, use this time to do some reading. Models by Mark Manson is the current gold standard for literature and I would highly recommend reading it during this time. Work on your inner game, and socializing with people. This is a transitional part of your life, you are looking for ways to support yourself, so that is your priority.

Hey man, I'm 24 as well, still a virgin but have never let it affect the way I behave around women. I'm pretty good at talking but I'm just never able to escalate which is why I've been investing a lot of time in improving my self-confidence. It boils down to this fear of being rejected and the need for approval from others. I started reading Models by Mark Manson, I highly recommend it. It's geared towards guys like us, inexperienced but willing to learn. Don't be too hard on yourself but at the same time, start becoming proactive.

I'm going to ask a girl out this weekend and I hope that it works out. Wish me luck, and I wish you luck.

Have you read Models by Mark Manson? "I'm not having sex with you" in the context that she is not a virgin is a shit test. Keep trying until she is super uncomfortable with it. Girls get turned on by desire

Here's a few tips to start out. 1st R/mealprepsunday subscribe and check out some of the top posts. 2nd r/personalfinance get your budget together. 3rd if you have the time read The Life Changing Magic of Tidying by Marie Kondo. Excellent concept on organizing your life. Also search for grants in your area for school, stay away from loans while you can. Get your basic courses from a accredited community college before moving on to a University. Economically it is more sane. That's all I could think of off the top of my head. Best of luck for you. Don't give up. One day at a time. Oh P.S. Read "Eat That Frog" by Brian Tracy and How To Win Friends and Influence People" as soon as you can.

Read Models by Mark Manson. If you want to learn and do game (or just have a better overall lifestyle), that book is required reading.

This is how I personally see game. Day game is harder but more rewarding. I believe Daygame is better served as a means to get a long term relationship whereas night game is better as a means to get a one night stand or even a fuck buddy.

Figure out what type of girl you truly want and what kind of relationship you'd like to have. Once you figured that out, go to venues that will have that demographic of women.

Example: You probably want a girl that enjoys music. In that case, go to concerts, music stores, different Meetups for Music, or even bars that have a live band playing.

You need to do your own research. A good start is the sidebar of /r/seduction.

After that, read Models by Mark Manson. Also, if you have issues with people in general, read "How to win friends and influence people".

The above two will give a good foundation for success.

Couldn't face the truth in the last post, huh?

Okay, let's work this out backwards. What's your desired end-goal here?

If you haven't read Models by Mark Manson yet, I urge you to do it. Don't just read it, study it. It explains this situation well. Women in happy relationships aren't worth pursuing if you're a man of true confidence and value, because they will only abandon and cheat in that relationship if they're really unhappy to begin with.

Also, if you do manage to game this girl to go out with you and kino escalate on the date... what then? Do you want to be with a girl that cheats that easily?

If you have no understanding of flirting or seduction, I would suggest you go deeper than asking tips here at Seddit. Read Models by Mark Manson or Attraction Isnt a Choice by David DeAngelo. They will give you the background behind attraction and dating/flirting

If your intention was to date her, you needed to ask her out on more than one occasion, and escalate. Also the gift is completely unnecessary. Save that for when you're actually dating, then it's seen as a lovely gesture, before that it's really a big no. Don't do that next time.

So what you would do is meet, talk, make her laugh, be natural, treat her like anyone else, get her number, do something fun together, see if there's a spark, invite her out again, and build from there. You should be able to make some physical escalation around date 2, even if only subtle, and you start to know if she's into you or not. (If she agrees to come out a second time, just the two of you, it's usually a pretty good sign).

Also yeah - avoid telling a girl you like her, at least at first, until the attraction is there. It's actually not the worst thing you can do, but most guys who do this kind of thing usually have no idea what they're doing and will say it before there's any attraction, or like after 12 times of being besties taking selfies around the mall thinking he still has a chance....So the advice around here is never say it, show her with your actions, to be on the safe side. Don't play all your cards. Build the attraction and interest, and then leave her thinking 'does he like me? or is he just hanging out with me??'. She'll still come out though, because she'll get curious and start to want you even more. This is why you don't say too much at first.

Anyway take some time to read the sub here. Double Your Dating by David Deangelo is actually a really useful book to read alongside Models by Mark Manson, if you feel like reading some material.

I'll second hissing elephant. Models by Mark Manson is the best work I've read so far (by far). And I've also read some Brene Brown, she's very good. Her book about vulnerability really backs up Manson's themes. Check out Daring Greatly by her, it's interesting and helpful. Another classic is Dale Carnegie's How to Win Friends. VERY useful book. I read some of No More Mr. Nice Guy, never finished it though (my issues with seduction have never been being a nice guy), it's definitely worth a read since it's quite short.

Anyway, you have all the materials you need man. No need in getting a freakin library of seduction books. All the important and life altering lessons you'll learn in this "game" come from real life experiences. Just keep that in mind.

The absolute first thing that you have to work on is the first paragraph. You have to have good self-esteem in order to be good with anything let alone women. I could go on about this for a while so I'll just keep it as short as possible.

Read some books: Models by Mark Manson, Six Pillars of Self-Esteem, No More Mr. Nice Guy.

These books are more about working on yourself than women although the first one is about seduction.

So you're afraid of rejection, that's completely normal and something you will be facing a lot of if you're going to get into this stuff. What you have to understand is that a rejection is a compatibility issue and the best way to deal with it is to accept it and focus on other things after like other girls, your interests, improving yourself.

The "Nice Guy" that they talk about in that book is really just a nickname for those wet-noodle/doormat type of nice guys. It doesn't refer to all nice men. You can be perfectly nice without being a "Nice Guy."

All that said, it doesn't sound like that's your problem, so you can probably put that book away. It's great for helping some people better themselves but it's a far cry from a book about flirting with or attracting women. Read something like Models by Mark Manson to get a better understanding of the basics of attraction. Other than that from your post I can't glean anything about you that stands out. I think just more experience with flirting and a little more knowledge will help you out. Read Models.

The Manual by W. Anton

How to be a 3% Man by Corey Wayne

Models by Mark Manson

The books listed above will develop your inner game.

The books/resources listed below will develop your outer game (Comebacks, lines, routines) for you to fall back on in the field.

Shit Tests guide on Seddit

ALL SimplePickup YouTube videos

A Thousand Tiny Failures by Tony D. (I pulled a few great lines from this, it's an overall awesome reading for anyone getting into the seduction community. It inspired me to move across the country)

The Game by Neil Strauss (Not the most useful, but worth it imo)

Read all the inner game books 2-5x each and I doubt you'll find much value in a boot camp. The only thing you'll need to work on after all these will probably be approach anxiety, which goes down tremendously anyways. Enjoy!

On what /u/warzoneofderfectation wrote: The more good looking and rich you are, the less attractive behavior you need to be high status. This works the other way too, but only to a certain degree, for instance, dressing really bad (a good looking man for women is not nessecarily lucky in the genetic lottery) will make you highly unsuccessful no matter how good your behavior is, but if you dress ok and have really attractive behavior to compensate with, that will work. Read Models by Mark Manson (that should be a prerequisite here), he discusses this a lot.

Formerly morbid obese man here, time to shine.

I nearly tipped the scales at 300 pounds and besides, the two girlfriends I had, I had no experience whatsoever. What did I do?

I hit the gym. I got into running and now getting into powerlifting. I'm proud to say I lost a shit ton of weight and now weigh 247 pounds. Earlier this year I couldn't walk 20 feet without breaking a sweat or without losing my breath. Now I can easily run a 5k no problem.

Losing weight will boost your self-esteem and confidence. You'll also enjoy tons of health benefits.

Experience? No problem. Read up on your material, watch videos, etc. Learn this shit. Not only learn but also practice. Start out by approaching women just to ask for the time or directions. Do just that so you can slowly get rid of your approach anxiety. Become more social with everyone. You can do this simply by making small talk with your classmates, coworkers, people in elevators, etc.

I recommend you read Models by Mark Manson. You can also watch Tyler Durden and Julien from RSD but I warn you to be skeptical because some of their advice is either useless or over the top. The rest is good stuff. I also recommend Marcus Oakey's free ebook. How to build rapport with anyone by Robin Dreke is also a good read.

Remember, you're fat and inexperienced. Those are not giant problems that cannot be solved. Your two problems do have a solution. You can change your life but you must work hard. Good luck, bro.

>I'm afraid/uncomfortable to escalate the talk to sexual topics as is suggested (like "what was your first kiss like?" etc.)

This is bullshit. This is not "suggested". It's not something you need to do. AT all.

> I feel like confident honesty would be along the lines as suggested in Models by Mark Manson.

This would fall under the category of things you don't need to unload or dump on people. When the motivation for sharing such things is to allay your own insecurity, you need to hold your tongue and address that shit within yourself instead of looking to others to make you feel better.

You don't need to bring this up. But you should seek to improve you knowledge and become a student of sex. Read up on different positions. Find out where the G-spot is. (Hint: women have one, and so do men. Though most straight men don't usually stimulate theirs.) Read up on the two main kinds of orgasms (men and women both have two kinds). Read up on female ejaculation. Read up on foreplay. And above all, cultivate the attitude that there is NO RIGHT WAY for all women. You always have to treat each woman as undiscovered territory to explore. Make no assumptions about what they'll like.

What is "just"? If "just" is anything less than 6 months, you're not ready. Take some time for yourself. Do the things you weren't doing in your relationship like going to the gym, being with friends, or pursuing a hobby you've always wanted to.

I'd take this time to read as well. If you haven't, check out Models by Mark Manson

How to win friends and influence people is probably the best book you will ever read.

Other books i have enjoyed:

> The power of now

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> One Minute Manager

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> How to Talk to Anyone: 92 Little Tricks for Big Success in Relationships

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> The Definitive Book of Body Language

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> Games People Play

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> The 7 Habits of Highly Effective People: Powerful Lessons in Personal Change

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> Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance: An Inquiry Into Values

All of these books are great and will give both you and the people you interact with immense amounts of value.

Enjoy! :)

First thing: Ignore the friend. One of the traits of a "natural" (i.e. someone who sleeps with a lot of high-quality women and satisfies them) is that a natural knows from the get-go that the girl wants them. Asking about the friend is admitting that you're uncertain she likes you. A side-note: the trick to sleeping with women who are interested in other men (boyfriends, husbands, etc) is to never bring up the other guy. I don't sleep with married/boyfriended women, but I know it works. Pretend he doesn't exist and show the girl an amazing time. He will cease to exist in her mind.

Second thing: Abandon the idea of "asking her out." This phrase has done more damage to the psyche of young males than almost any other. Call her up (yes, call, don't text) and ask her if she wants to hang out, go to a movie, take a walk, hunt baby rhinos, it doesn't matter. What you do with her makes no difference, it's all about the interaction. And the reason I say to call her is because you know those butterflies you get before you pick up the phone to call a girl you like? She gets those when she sees your incoming phone call.

One more piece of humble advice. Cut out the constant communication (esp. texting). Ignore her. Build mystery. It works, trust me. Don't believe me? Science to the rescue! Here's a peer-reviewed study by Dan Ariely, famed economist and author of Predictably Irrational:

Less is more: the lure of ambiguity, or why familiarity breeds contempt.

Edit: I see you're a Mexian Jew. That's awesome. I have a few Mexian Jew friends and they're frickkin' cool (I'm a non-Mexican Jew)

Read Models by Mark Manson if you haven't already.

You don't need to approach everyone you think is hot. You should approach because you want to. You want to know if they are cool enough to hang with you. They are fun enough for you to spend 2 hours on a date with.

While learning pickup, approaching everyone is recommended so that you can keep out of your head, utilize your time better, and get more practice faster.

Ah just mellow out a bit. Don't contact her back for about a week. Keep yourself busy. Pretty much you we're displaying neediness due to constantly being available. Women like a man who has a life outside of them. For starters read some helpful posts, the welcome page or /r/seduction, and then Models by Mark Manson. The book models will help with getting rid of the neediness. I've found for me personally the best way is to actually be busy. Fill your life up with things that you enjoy.

Thank you for your inspiring story! It's fantastic you're on your path to self improvement and getting laid/a girlfriend. Don't worry if it takes longer than you expect, but don't worry about crashing and burning on your first few approaches.... It most likely will happen. Just like you had to work out a bunch of times before you got results, likely you'll have to make a few approaches before you become comfortable with it (and likely more than a few!). OK, I have not been through your exact situation but was very shy in HS. What do? Go off campus if need be, that way if you fell really embarrassed about a rejection it won't get back to you. Then your just gonna have to bite the bullet, walk up and say, "hey, which way is Macy's?", or some shit. And make that your goal. Walk up, ask directions, say thanks, move on. Do that a bunch of times until you can strike up a convo. Alternative is to take a dance class, they say. TLDR; your ready, you know you're ready, go approach, don't worry about the outcome, the outcome is the transformation that will come the more you approach. Also, be sure to read Models by Mark Manson, and the power of Now. Maybe find a wing in a freind who is in the same boat as you. Slow and steady wins the race, mate:)

Going through the whole being replaced process now man. I feel your pain, it really, really fucking sucks. And the lonely nights such even more. Read Models by Mark Manson, it's really helping me get over her. Feel free to shoot me a message if you want to talk to someone going through the same shit.

Studying Aristotle at college right now (just at a very basic level, we're reading Nicomachean Ethics) and your point about happiness is exactly what he has to say about it. Life is the search for happiness, whatever that may be, no matter what it feels like individually.

You've just agreed with one of the greatest philosophers of all time. Well done, sir.

3 points:

• Get over the oneitis. Go out and start talking to girls. Dont just base your standards on looks. Theres a lot of really cool girls out there, go find them. Stay away from the ones that are compatible with you.

• Check out /r/nofap and block your porn sites. Try not to fap more than once a week. This works wonders. Very difficult though!

• Go learn game. Check out /r/seduction and read ALL of the side bar. Your inner game needs serious work!! It is the single most important part. Learn and master if first before all else. I recommend reading Models by Mark Manson.

Any questions feel free to ask!

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http://www.hulu.com/watch/56364/the-office-mnemonic-device Courtesy of Michael Scott

You could ask to compare licenses

Or, if you immediately forget, ask for her name again, and if she says only her first name, say 'No, I meant your last name'

Yep, I agree. But that's for me. If you can score a date with a HB9 on OKC, more power to you. I remember every time I started using it, I'd say, "This time, I'm only going to date a HB". One month later, I'd settle and start dating 5s.

Choice is bad and on OKC, females have way too much choice.

If OKC was a bar, it would be the worst bar in the world. It's a sausage fest where every guy can simultaneously talk to the hottest girl and not have to worry about AA while doing it.

Send her, "Hey, it's been a while. Sup?"

If she writes back then, "Let's go to a bar on Saturday night. 9pm at <wherever>?"

> she didn't get much attention from guys, but I was still aroused

That's what counts, anyway.

> Me: Got someplace in mind?

The crux. You could've just said, "Yeah, let's meet at <corner right near your place>." She arrives and then you invite her up for coffee. Or say, "Your place, I'll bring coffee." Coffee so that she doesn't feel like you're going over for sex.

> I didn't want to bring her back to my place because none of us ever bring girls home

Someone has to be the first to do it. Let it be you. Sexile the roommates. It's not a big deal.

I just continue our conversation.

This can either come from the conversation when we first met or when she texted me first.

Yeah, I get her to text me first.

Its actually pretty easy to do.

Two ways that I do it:

• I invite her to join me doing something cool, I talk about it, give her all the details and then tell her, "Cool, just text me" and then give her my number.

• Or I "leave my phone" and when I get to the number exchange part I give her my number & tell her to text me a reference to our conversation so she can "test if I still remember her".

Just keep your phone on silent for the second one or leave it with your friend in a bar/club or leave it in your car during daygame.

...

This part is for everyone reading this comment

A lot of you have sent me direct messages asking for my advice because you read a comment I made on this sub, just like this one, and found it to be very helpful/insightful/meaningful and I'm happy to say I've been able to help you guys so much more because of that.

Here's the problem: More and more messages are coming in and I really want to help but its getting hard to keep up.

So I've put together a Telegram group for you guys that want to improve your dating lives and want to actually understand the psychology behind our interactions with not only women but with ourselves and people in general.

If you want to be part of a group that believes in finesse over brute force, technique over strength, smart work over hard work, Seduction over pursuit then send me a direct message with your Telegram username.

If you are serious about getting better with women then I'll be happy to welcome you in.

And if you've been reading a lot of my comments already and would want to learn directly from me through coaching follow this link to schedule a call with me to see if that would be a good idea or not.

What success do you have in your life.?

Your confidence is build on your success.

Find 3 things that counts as a success, and then tomorrow find one new thing... Then the confidence will grow inside you.

Read this E-book for ideas: https://www.scribd.com/doc/233948607/JesperSB-What-to-say-on-a-date-How-to-show-the-real-you

When you have success in your life, then if the girl texts you "great.!"

If she don't text you, then you have 10 other success, so make you happy.

It is okay to be Mr. Nice guy.

But it is the order of what you say that is important...

If you try to create comfort with out showing any value, then you become just another (Non-sexual) friend.

Here is my book: https://www.scribd.com/doc/233948607/JesperSB-What-to-say-on-a-date-How-to-show-the-real-you

well me, im into quite a few things, a lot of them you shouldn't be doing lol but the ones i could recommend are gaming, try going to a hobby shop and see what other ppl are playing/looks interesting, theres all kinds of board games(much more advanced then simple kid games) card games of ALL kinds ALLLLL KIIIIINDS, warfare miniatures where ppl have army's of miniatures that they put together/painted, and of course pen and paper games like dnd.another hobby you could consider is camping thats a great thing to do with a group of ppl, get some friends or find ppl with similar interests in out dooring and go for it. ever heard of http://www.geocaching.com/ ?

What about something like this? It's not as in-your-face but still kind of unique. Plus you can always say you made it.

Idk about forums, but you can submit the pics on https://www.photofeeler.com/, people rate the pic based on your goal (social, business or dating) and you can choose the demographics (women up to 35, for example).

Unfortunately, you can get only up to 10 votes per pic for free, and you need to vote on other people photos as well

Get a queen size platform bed that is well-made and can handle lots of rough sex. Both of the options you are talking about are going to fall apart after a couple months if you're pulling regularly.

Here's a good one I bought several of on prime day for some of my rental units. https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07Y5XTFC4

There's a book called Psycho-Cybernetics that is the book on understanding and rebuilding self-image. That and No More Mr Nice Guy should be recommended reading for everyone in this subreddit.

There are actually a few, but it's not necessary to follow a road map. If you want some structure you might want to try Rules of the Game as it has structured homework assignments and related lessons. But you don't need it.

Learning is not a straight road. It's a twisty one and everyone walks their own twisty path.

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Direct/Natural Game

I’m 33 and happily married.
I prefer Direct/Natural Game, and my gurus are: * Vin DiCarlo (he initially posted as Woodhaven), * David X, * Ranko “Shark” Magami.

But I do think it’s difficult to grasp some of their concepts/techniques when you’re first starting out, depending on your level of comfort/experience/rustiness with dating.

I did start out with DYD (Double Your Dating) by David Deangelo (aka Eben Pagan). It’s not bad for starting out, but I’m not sure it’s the right book for everyone when starting out.

Book/study recommendations

• theAttraction Handbook, by Sebastian Drake
  • I don’t know if this is still available online, but if you can find it, it’s the manual I use. It is an awesome guide covering most essential info including openers, escalation, the three C’s of dating, where to meet women...
• Stephen Nash’s How to Get a Girlfriend Amazon link here
  • it’s a good book if you’re genuinely looking to improve with women, although I prefer the older edition of the book (it’s a bit more concise than the current one I think)
• The DiCarlo Escalation Ladder by Vin DiCarlo
  • The BEST and simplest method of rejection-free Escalation.
• Any video by David X is gold, whenever I feel a bit rusty I watch one.

I second the guy above's comment, Models by Mark Manson is a great book, truly helped me when I was in a low spot.

I recommend finding ways to talk to girls online it can help with building your confidence when it feels "less real" and you feel more able to express yourself anonymously. The Whisper.sh app is pretty good for that, you can write whatever you want, respond to other whispers and start interesting and meaningful chats with people anonymously. I know people who'v even ended up having hookups from there too. When you become more confident with expressing yourself you'll naturally feel more open in real life settings.

hey man sorry for late reply just saw your message now :)

Here is a link to Jason Capital's Make Women Want You + all bonues: http://kat.cm/jason-capital-make-women-want-you-platinum-upgrade-t9183986.html

But a much better book I really think you should read is Models by Mark Manson here is a link:

https://thepiratebay.org/torrent/16370705/Models__Attract_Women_Through_Honesty_(2016_ed)_by_Mark_Manson

I am 22 and I really need help with this part of my life too :)

It sounds like you are a little new to romance. The panic attack at the hand holding and the desire to confess are signs that you are very over-invested in the girl, which will make being genuinely "cool" around her impossible and even acting cool around her difficult.

I’d recommend that you immediately read a good inner game book like Models by Mark Manson. You seem like a nice person who will appreciate the book's honest-but-effective approach.

The immediate danger is (1) getting friendzoned because you were a little asexual at the concert or (2) getting pigeon-holed into only the concert buddy role.

You need to escalate from friendly to funny to flirty to hooking up. Getting her to partner with you at a dance class like ballroom or swing would mean that you could escalate physically with her but still talk with her, lead her in a masculine way, and girls love stuff like dance classes. The boy-girl ratio is favorable, so her natural jealousy as you dance with other girls will work for you, too.

After class, score some red wine and split a bottle with her because it’ll loosen both of you up, it’s romantic, and since it seems like she already likes you, that’ll probably be all you need to start kissing her and turning her on.

That's a very good analysis... I never thought of that. You're absolutely correct : in fact, this woman is very first one to pay attention to me for the past 20 years. In fact, she's part of the reason why I'm even here in the first place : because I do care about getting a girlfriend after telling myself I don't for all these years, and she made me realize it.

I'm not ready to jump to the nearest bar next evening either, because I'm still working on myself before : losing weight, finding a suitable style, doing a bit of research on the subject (currently reading Models by Mark Manson)... But I know I'll have to do it to broaden my horizons.

OK. Here's the simple answer.

If you were to stop initiating a conversation with either one or both of the girls, would they pick up the slack and contact you or your friend on third own accord?

If a girl likes you she'll make time and effort to chat with you and will try to even include you in plans to see each other face to face.

If these girls are even remotely attractive, at the age they're at, they have at least a handful of other guys messaging and wanting to spend time with them, so unless you can make yourself desirable and unique, you're just going to fade into the background.

I would say that the best thing you can do is to stop being so outcome dependent. Hang out or chat with no hidden agenda and just enjoy yourself, getting to know them/her etc.

Have you read any of the suggested books like Models by Mark Manson?

Seems lots of the questions you ask are basics covered by these sorts of books.

>Because I grew up in a very poor country never had money for education so I'm self taught.

Good, so you can teach yourself seduction like everyone else. Read the side bar and read Models by Mark Manson.

Spoiled little kid.

Nah bro, it's because your mindset sucks. You come in here expecting someone to just be your mentor when they have their own life to live, just drop everything and help you for free when no one did the same for them? Dude, bounce. No one is here to lay out a red carpet and blow you while you "try out seduction" as if it doesn't work. We love new people, but we hate new people that come in here acting like we owe them something like dropping everything just to help them out. That's not how life works, sorry champ. Read the side bar and read Models by Mark Manson. That's what you'll start with. Go from there.

Also, you're definitely 12, that's not an assumption. Your spelling sucks, you sound entitled, I don't know why you're talking about vacuum cleaners for some reason, and you're most likely really skinny or really fat.

It doesnt really matter. I might look ugly as fuck to Sarah but to Jessica, I'm as handsome as Brad Pitt. Looks are subjective; what one woman might dislike, another woman might like.

Read Models by Mark Manson.

Read How to Win Friends and Influence People by Dale Carnegie. I know its extremely important to practice out in the field and actually meet people but this book is amazing. It isn't PUA oriented of course but it is geared towards socializing and human psychology. I would even say it's required reading along with Models by Mark Manson.

When you say feminists, do you mean 3rd wave or 2nd? 2nd wave actually was about equality as there were genuine gender issues stopping women from joining the work force as equals. 3rd wave is the issue. 3rd wave or intersectional is based on cultural Marxism (everyone is oppressed somehow by a ruling class). It is also flawed and prejudiced because it relies on generalisations and doesn't really take into account systems.
For 3rd wave feminism to continue to justify itself it therefore needs to create an oppressor class (heterosexual white men) and oppressed (everyone else but especially women). This means that the majority of advice you get will be how to stop oppressing women , without taking away their privileges e.g. "just because we had a nice dinner doesn't mean we are having sex but you can pay for the meal".

Let's get a few things clear. Feminists cannot even agree amongst themselves.
Not all feminists are illogical bitches who hate men.
Advice not to be an asshole is not bad advice.
Advice to listen and communicate is not always bad advice.
Women often don't know how women work. Guys who have devoted their adult lives to picking up women might have a good idea. You can't always trust a fish to teach you how to catch fish.
Models by Mark Manson is not s bad start.

Newsflash: women, including female feminists hate male feminists. They also seem to dislike guys who are trying too hard to be nice. 'No more Mr niceguy' explains why.

tl:dr? You don't have to be a jerk or an asshole or a needy sensitive guy. You can actually just be a nice guy and do fine, in life and with women.

I know I'm being really general with my suggestions but I feel like you gave a general description of your problem.

• Learn how to banter, flirt, and sexualize conversation.

• Read Models by Mark Manson and How to Win Friends and Influence People by Dale Carnegie

• Start going to the gym; it'll boost your confidence and attraction to women.

• Having a bunch of female friends is a huge advantage! Not only can you easily meet single female friends through them, you become more accustomed to certain female behaviour or conversation topics and thus you can better create rapport with other women

I used to feel anxious about being lonely forever. But at that point it becomes self fulfilling. At some point you just need to stop worrying about it and find happiness independent of your relationship status. Doing so takes the pressure off a lot of your interaction with the opposite and makes it easier.

A book that has helped me is Meditations by Marcus Aurelius. I'd recommend you give it a read and just generally have a sniff around different western philosophies. The chances are you'll pick up useful bits and pieces from each that you'll find useful.

Can I give you advice? The first part of being a sexy guy is to feel sexy. Do you like how you look naked? Fix that. The gym made me a stronger person not only with women, but with myself. I have an air of confidence about me that helps carry my decisions and prevents me from succumbing to someone who may consider themselves to be more "alpha" than myself. I rarely meet people that I bow to, which comes from the arrogance every man should feel about himself when in a social situation. Hit the gym, become a better you, and work on yourself.

Next, get working on your inner game. You're married so this is easier for you, but read Models by Mark Manson. That book taught me about how to be a better me for no one else but myself. If you feel like a strong person inside, being sexy is a lot easier. When you think sexy, you feel sexy. This is another part of it.

Lastly, focus on bettering yourself. You can do this on your own, but it will start to show when your wife sees you. Change your dress. I'll look in GQ and see these expensive ass outfits people wear, and then go and buy the cheaper equivalent that is affordable for a grad student living on loans, and when I dress sexy I feel sexy. All of these factors play a huge role in how you see yourself and how others see you.

Work on making yourself sexy, and acting sexy will just come from there.

I've never read any books on the subject, my friend actually has Models by Mark Manson and said he'd let me borrow it but that was a while ago. I tried finding it at two different Books A Million one day but never could, I was looking in the romance section not sure if that was right or not. Also, would it be weird walking around reading either Models or No More Mr. Nice Guy in public?

I prefer to talk to girls on my own since that's just the way its always been but if you think it would help then I might give it a try. How could I use her as a wingwoman though? I really don't know how to go about that considering it seems like she only talks to guys. I also am interested in her, she's just not the kind of girl I usually go for but I get what you mean.

Yea I realize that, innocent looking is more like what I mean. I try to be as straightforward as possible when talking to girls I'm interested in but I'm not cocky about it, if anything you can tell I'm nervous but I do throw in a few flirty jokes from time to time so I'm somewhere between nervous and confidence. Nervous in how I speak, confident in what I want to say if that makes any sense.

I'm working on eating right to actually gain weight, did it for two months and had progress but two jobs and school messed it up so now I'm getting back into it all. Getting back into working out as well, and working on playing an instrument.

Don't worry about banging girls. Just focus on creating the life that you want, and being the man that you want to be. Focus on being the best version of yourself-- challenging yourself everyday, pushing your comfort zone-- and girls will flock to you.

Talk to as many girls as possible. Literally talk to every girl you see. If that sounds tough, try holding eye contact with every girl you see. Get rejected, but keep approaching-- you gotta be comfortable talking to girls.

Set goals, achieve them, then set bigger goals. Grow everyday, and women will come.

I'm 22 live at home and attend community college, but I've learned a lot of shit on /r/seduction and this is what I've taken away. I've had some success with women, but more importantly I've learned so much about myself and what I want in life, and that's really the key of everything.

Focus on your purpose and chase your goals/dreams. Challenge yourself to always be better than the man you were yesterday. Love yourself and everyone around you. Lift weights, exercise, and eat good food. Everything else will fall into place.

A lot of people on here recommend reading Models by Mark Manson. Definitely a great read. Also The Way of the Superior Man by David Deida was super helpful imo. Read more in general mane, knowledge is power. Hope this helps.

Read Models by Mark Manson. Start there. You'll be doing way more studying in the beginning, then you'll practice a bunch and fail, and then it becomes easier and you become successful.

Hit the gym, make yourself look attractive, feel as attractive as you look, and then it comes from there. Shyness comes from lack of confidence. The more confident and comfortable you are, the easier it is to flirt and pick up women.

> You created attraction based on the thrill of the hunt.

Bah. I told myself this was what was happening when I first noticed a drop in attraction. You pretty much said everything I already told myself, but now that I've had confirmation from a complete stranger, it makes it much easier to handle. I noticed that I'm very good at "performing" and making all the PUA tactics seem natural, but when things start to get serious I freak out and don't know how to handle it anymore (do I stop playing aloof and give her more attention? but then she'll lose attraction etc). This is also why I started reading Models by Mark Manson. Any advice for future relationships?

> I noticed that I'm very good at "performing" and making all the PUA tactics seem natural, but when things start to get serious I freak out and don't know how to handle it anymore (do I stop playing aloof and give her more attention? but then she'll lose attraction etc). This is also why I started reading Models by Mark Manson. Any advice for future relationships?

Couple of things:

• Your reaction to her initially, was the correct one. And you overrode it. Next time, pay heed to your instincts. If you only want casual, don't be ambiguous about what you're offering. And definitely be on the look out for obsessive girls. They can really complicate your life in many ways.

• If you're overriding your instincts like this in the name of gaming a girl, you ought to be on the lookout to be sure you are truly into a girl that you are trying to get with. It's one thing to know how to get in there. In some ways, it's easy, if you're attentive to the girl. Less easy, is juggling that awareness, with self-awareness of whether or not the girl is doing anything for you.

• So the thing to do is cut out this whole "playing aloof" business. It doesn't serve you as well whether you want casual or serious. I can attest that it's not necessary for either. Just as her to hang out. Don't play hard to get. Then you won't have to deal with this sort of thing.

Day game is much more difficult than opening sets at a club or at night.. I'd start there and build your confidence. There's so many great forums and books to read. I'd start with Models by Mark Manson and also The Tao of Badass. The latter has a great approach flowchart that's got great beginner structure

You lingered all night and wouldn't stop talking.

Rule 1: stop drinking, you suck at it. You'll rely on alcohol and it will suck when you don't have any around you to drink.
Rule 2: she should be talking, not you. She needs to sell herself to you as a buyer, but you were trying to convince her to pick you.
Rule 3: you should talk to a girl for MAX 30 minutes and then leave. Seem busy, go talk to other people, have her see you as a popular guy, someone that's approachable, but if you linger with her it means you're sprung and probably don't have any game to talk to other people.
Rule 4: you have to have abundance mentality. You're talking to this girl like a newbie, you're losing her interest because you probably told her your life story on the spot, and you kind of went overboard because you read her wrong and put your arm on her when she wasn't reciprocating the same feelings. You need to learn how to read people which you don't know how to do.

How to Win Friends and Influence People by Dale Carnegie is free online, go download it and read it. It'll teach you how to be sociable and likeable. That will be your Bible. Then spend the $20 on Models by Mark Manson. It's not the end all be all, but it'll teach you how to be confident in yourself which makes talking to girls easier.

Good luck.

Thanks for the advice man

> I'm not anti red pill personally, but in your case I worry it would do more damage than good

Care to elaborate?

Also I mention cashiers etc. cos there's a waitress at the cafe I go to after work (would say she's a few years younger than me 17-19), who served me (just the plate not the drinks), walked away…I swear she turned around when she thought I wasn't looking, this little smirk, came on her face and she put her fingers through her hair for a moment-hard to tell cos she had to get straight back to the kitchen. I have never noticed an attractive girl double-take me before. All I'd had was a nice checkered shirt on from work, a shower and a haircut a few days before. I wasn't ripped or anything lol

OK so here's what's confusing about all the advice I've received so far on this thread. You say

> You do NOT have to be a knockout to get women

> Stop talking your way out of stuff [approach anxiety] with self-fulfilling prophecies

but then later say

> focus on building a good social work, you need a strong group of male friends who aren't losers […] That's step one, alongside fixing up your dress, attitude, etc. Focus on work, school, whatever. Lift. Eat right. **Then you can try and meet some women-join new groups, go to parties (hence why you need tone hanging with social, and interesting people, so you get invited to that stuff.)

So which is it? Practice social skills now while improving or don't even bother risking until I've boosted SMV?

> Read some books-Models by Mark Manson and Double Your dating

Thanks man, Models is on the Kindle and I'll consider DYD. I'm very near the end of No More Mr Nice Guy right now, although I need to do the exercises and apply it after that

I can't believe this is real either. After the part with the sneakers I gave up on OPs credibility.

But if it somehow is I offer this advice to OP:

I don't know where you live, but being 16 and going to a local pub probably isn't the best place for you to pick up women.

Now let's forget about the guy with the two women. Your opener was not good. Negging isn't easy and too many people on this sub make an attempt at it with such little experience and often fail. Don't overthink it and just say hi and work from there.

So now back to the guy with them. Why would you approach in this situation? It's a risky approach. You don't know who that guy is. If it was her boyfriend it was probably destined to fail. If it was a friend or relative or something, you fucked up by insulting the woman.

However use it as a learning experience. I feel like you are taking things from this sub and immediately applying them expecting results with overconfidence.

I would advise reading Models by Mark Manson. It's a good first start.

So,I finished reading the Models by Mark Manson and it has helped me a lot on improving myself.One of the exercises he said was to go for a week straight with the walk and make eye contact with everyone.Now,as I being using the "walk" in everyday routine,it definately has boosted my confidence but the thing is 90% of the time I try to make I contact with someone off,there is no reciprocity.5% other time they look in my direction and break it off.The other 5% of the time,when they look at me,I don't know how long to hold it for?1 second,2 second 5 second or till I pass them when I am walking.What if they are talking or busy with something?What if girl looks at me?am I doing this right?

I think the one book that I've read that had the biggest impact on my interactions with women was 'The Unbearable Lightness of Being' by Milan Kundera. Disclaimer here is that I'm not into reading books like 'the game' or any of the actual pickup books. I read a lot of books that are fairly philosophically or psychologically heavy and are geared towards making you a better person or providing new perspective on the world.

Not particularly with women, but another book I recently finished that is probably one of the most powerful books I've ever encountered is 'Man's Search for Meaning' by Viktor Frankl.

I would recommend reading these two books back to back. They are very contrasting perspectives. Kundera argues against Nietzsche's philosophy of "heaviness" through eternal return, and says that the fact that we only get one life makes everything light, and basically that nothing matters and that life cannot have meaning. Frankl argues that we find meaning in every decision we make every day, and that even when we can't change our circumstances, we can change our reaction to them and have ultimate power because of that.

I don't know about books specifically making you better with "romance", but reading the right books can definitely change your outlook on life, which will in turn make you better with women.

Have you read any literature on game? Probably not.

You're asking a very basic question of which there are countless books that tell you why you have this issue, and how it can be resolved. I'd recommend giving them a quick read. My favorite is Models by Mark Manson.