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They REALLY BELIEVE that they are Jehovah's Earthly Organization.

All the past mistakes are attributed to the "New Light Doctrine" mentioned in proverbs where it says; "The light keeps getting brighter and brighter"

This is why they keep going despite the evidence surrounding them that it's not "God's Earthly Organization.

The Governing Body is just a reflection of regular jws who believe with all their heart that the last days are almost over and the New Order is just around the corner.

You might want to read" Captives of a Concept by Don cameron.

https://www.amazon.com/Captives-Concept-Anatomy-Illusion-Cameron/dp/1411622103

The quote that WT attributes to Richard Dawkins isn't even from him.

>“The filament of DNA is information, a message written in a code of chemicals, one chemical for each letter,” wrote evolutionary biologist Richard Dawkins. “It is almost too good to be true, but the code turns out to be written in a way that we can understand.

It's from Genome: The Autobiography of a Species in 23 Chapters by Matt Ridley. You can read the chapter it was taken from in excerpt here

Richard Dawkins was merely quoting Matt Ridley in The Oxford Book of Modern Science Writing

Not only are WT now misquoting authors, they are getting the source authors altogether wrong.

In The Better Angels of Our Nature by Harvard professor Steven Pinker, he cites studies that show the absolute best way to break down prejudice against any group is to get out of your comfort zone and spend time with those people. People who were once racially prejudice, for example, start to change when they suddenly end up with a next door neighbor who's African American.

So if you really want to get past your feelings toward LGBT people, spend time with them. Find an LGBT meetup on meetup.com and be honest with them: tell them you were raised in a conservative anti-gay household and you're wanting to overcome the biases you were taught. I guarantee you (as someone with a number of LGBT friends gained since I exited), they will gladly help you and will appreciate how difficult it is for you to do what you're doing.

THIS! As an elder when I was PIMI I did this many times to other elders and ministerial servants that wanted to step down. And it's an honest reaction for the mindset that you're in at that time. They think that you've worked so diligently for your privileges they don't want you to lose all that hard work that you've put in.

As Pimo24 said. You must be firm. You have to accept the fact that you are going to step on some toes, the elders and your father's.

I heartily recommend the book "When I say no I feel guilty." You can find it on Amazon for less than $10. It is a wonderful book for helping you recover your assertive rights. The truth is most of us ex Jehovah's Witnesses need that kind of training since we have been brainwashed to always be obedient and to give in to the wants of others, always above our own. It is not your job to make other people happy. It is not your job to fill others expectations of you.

"For almost thirty years, M. James Penton’s Apocalypse Delayed has been the definitive scholarly study of this religious movement. As a former member of the sect, Penton offers a comprehensive overview of the Jehovah's Witnesses."

https://www.amazon.com/Apocalypse-Delayed-Story-Jehovahs-Witnesses/dp/1442616059

Well, okay, it's called Quitting Jehovah's Witnesses & Other Cults: how to do it & why you should

​

Free education for anyone smart enough to enroll

Edit:

Protip: Before you start making claims that macroevolution isn't supported by science, do some research so you don't sound like a cunt.

Edit 2: 4 points 20 minutes ago... awwww yeah

WHen he first started activism he did not show his face and was still a JW. So he used John Cedars . https://www.amazon.com/Reluctant-Apostate-Leaving-Jehovahs-Witnesses-ebook/dp/B01N4V1WRA/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1540038983&sr=8-3&keywords=jehovah%27s+witnesses

Sure you can....

Pee Funnel for Women | Portable Female Urination Device | No More Worries Using Public Restrooms at Festivals, Camping, Travel | Irreplaceable Post Surgery Aid | Discreet Carry Bag https://www.amazon.com/dp/B077Y84P7Z/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_glt_fabc_DE7FP7E1X8V46YHXG7MA?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1

This is the best book I have read on the contradictions. Bart explains them in an easy to understand way. I HIGHLY recommend this book for getting around the contradictions.

Jesus, Interrupted: Revealing the Hidden Contradictions in the Bible (And Why We Don't Know About Them) https://www.amazon.com/dp/B001TKD4XA/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_i_lH9UCbXXWZW6E

And if you want to get around the Bible a little better, Bart's books are amazing. I've read like three or four of them.

I'm no wifibandit, but I can provide as well:

https://mega.nz/#F!MMBGzKrZ!QpY471V5Jx8IdRNrId-LhQ

This archive contains all 190 outlines in english and spanish, plus some special ones (wedding, funeral, etc.). The S-99 file contains a list of all talk titles.

You should enjoy this book too then...:

https://www.amazon.ca/Orwellian-World-Jehovahs-Witnesses/dp/0802065457

This book was published in 1984 and I read it in 1985. It was instrumental in my deprogramming. I highly recommend it.

If you can't access it through purchase, your public library likely has a copy or can get it in for you.

How about you both go to couples’ counseling?
You could probably use this book:
https://www.amazon.com/EXiting-JW-Cult-Handbook-Witnesses/dp/1508477132

Please go slower with someone who is PIMI. You know that they can’t handle so many topics being lies. I know you were frustrated, but it’s not the way to get someone to wake up. Your wife has so many thoughts whirling around in her head. She may push you away.

What's your device?

For Android you could just download the PirateBox app and set it up. You need to root your phone first though.

For iOS there's afaik no PirateBox, but a similar app LibraryBox should do the same I think.

They broke their own rules.

<em>Shepherd the Flock of God</em> a.k.a. ks10

Chapter 5 pg.73

>Those Who Have Not Associated for Many Years

>^40. In deciding whether to form a judicial committee or not, the body of elders should consider the following:

>* Does he still profess to be a Witness?

>* Is he generally recognized as a Witness in the congregation or the community?

>* Does his conduct continue to affect any other person, such as in some cases of adultery or child abuse?

>* Does the person have a measure of contact or association with the congregation so that a leavening, or corrupting, influence exists?

>* Is the person willing to meet with a committee, thus admitting accountability to the Christian congregation?

>^41. Depending upon length of inactivity and other factors suggested above, elders may determine to hold the matter in abeyance. In such a case, they would make a record of the person’s questionable conduct for the congregation file. When the individual again shows interest in returning to the congregation, they can clarify these matters.

>^42. If the sinful conduct is known only to believing family members and no congregation action has been taken, believing relatives will likely determine to curtail family association severely, viewing the relative as bad association.—1 Cor. 15:33; w85 7/15 p. 19 par. 14.

Oh no! That is a secret book. It should not be given to those who are not serving as pioneers. Nor should the reference materials be posted.

Seventh Day Adventists, came about from the failed Millerite movement of the early 1800's. It was called the "Great Disappointment", but it spawned the Second Adventist Movement, of which the Seventh Day Adventists were born. Several decades later, CT Russell studied with SDA Nelson Barbour, took some of his ideas, threw in some Pyramidology, a sprinkle of Christadelphian and Quaker terminology, and viola! A brand new American cult was born, the Bible Students! After CT Russel's death, and the power take-over by JF Rutherford, he then renamed them the Jehovah's Witnesses.

If you'd like a completely thorough and academically researched, written, and cited history of the JW's, I highly recommend James Penton's book, Apocalypse Delayed

https://www.amazon.com/Apocalypse-Delayed-Story-Jehovahs-Witnesses-ebook/dp/B00UC99550/ref=sr_1_2?dchild=1&amp;keywords=James+Penton&amp;qid=1623258574&amp;sr=8-2

I'm currently reading Forged by Bart Ehrman where he explains that it's not just mistranslated text, but straight up forgeries. Even Christian scholars might want to think that the bible's mistranslations came from a good place but they did not. 1st and 2nd century christians sometimes just straight up did not like the message of a gospel and so they came up with forgeries and deceitful texts that were purposefully written in order to contradict the original writings. These lies also made their way into the modern bible of today. It blew my mind!

There's a reason why there is a Javascript book (1096 pages) and another called Javascript: The Good Parts (176 pages).

I think the bible could use a similar treatment.

> “If I determine the enemy's disposition of forces while I have no perceptible form, I can concentrate my forces while the enemy is fragmented. The pinnacle of military deployment approaches the formless: if it is formless, then even the deepest spy cannot discern it nor the wise make plans against it.” ~ Sun Tzu, The Art of War

There's a tactic that theists use in debates with atheists, whereby they do not just "move the goalposts," but completely remove the goalposts to their beliefs, abandoning any hardened, concrete position, rendering their beliefs ethereal "woo"; foggy, formless and unassailable by logical attack.

This is the purpose behind the "dumbing down" of doctrine in the Watchtower. They are making their mind control less vulnerable to fact. You cannot have cognitive dissonance if your beliefs do not generate internal conflict because you don't understand them.

They make up all kinds of claims to try and seem more credible. It is interesting that they want to be no part of the world yet they try to gain respect by wordly standards. Just a bandwagon tactic. http://www.alexa.com/topsites

For those outside of the USA who want to stream the episode online, the simplest and most legitimate option is get yourself a VPN (Virtual Private Network).

Personally, I use Nord VPN but there are a ton of alternatives. Just google VPN and pick one that has the price point you are okay with. Most are around $10 for a month.

Install the VPN, and select a USA server.

From there, you can view the episodes directly on the Oxygen website.

Part 1 has already been made available to stream on their site.

Part 2 is airing tonight, so it will likely be made available tomorrow.

There were also comments that the first episode has been posted to their YouTube page, but I wasn't able to find it. It will also likely be locked to USA, but you can use the same process here.

Hope this helps!

Mods -- hoping this is okay?

Has nothing to do with confirmation bias, has to do with research into what makes a cult, well, a cult.

First up, how would you describe a cult?

What are some common tactics cults exhibit? What would you look for in deciding whether or not something was a cult? Are there things that can make a group more or less cultish? Do any of these cult behaviors show up in the JW faith? All of these are researchable and answerable questions.

A pretty fair guideline to follow can be found in the BITE model created by a Cult expert Steven Hassan, or for a more in depth look into cults through his book Combating Cult Mind Control

Researching manipulative human behaviors, logical fallacies, history, etc... can also lead to comparisons to or identification of cult-like behaviors that help in determining whether or not something is a cult.

You nailed it FoxyProxyy.

When I was a young newly wed dub, there was a circuit assembly talk that came out and forbade oral. As a young newly wed couple it was all about the new things we could do. Especially since no one was allowed to explore and learn these things as teens. Well with that one talk, my wife (now ex) stopped it all and it turned in to missionary only. The part that really bothered me is that sex then turned in to a dirty thing for her and she never enjoyed it again.

For sure, it was probably written by a monk in the name of Paul (like a lot of scriptures), but it is suppose to be the first epistle of Paul to Timothy. Typically, the monks were addressing modern issues (like women preaching) as if they were written by these people. It is still officially considered Pauline, and all of that is trash in my book.

Pretty awesome book on the subject of who wrote the bible, if you haven't read this one already.

Sorry, this is not a quote by Voltaire. It's by a racist guy.

Still, he does not devalue what is said and indeed is relevant.

You know what's even better? That book is a compilation of writings from other scientists. The actual author of those word isn't Richard Dawkins, it's Matt Ridley, in his book Genome

Way to go, WT researchers!

Fantastic!

Also here's Fred Franz with his response to John Darts Article in the Los Angeles Times calling them out on it.

What chills me though are the crowd reactions. Scary.

A wonderful guy who goes by the user name of Atlantis and is responsible for keeping us up to date with so many letters and releases has provided the following link

https://www.filemail.com/d/bbqhomypjqhewyd

Just to add:

Another influence on me at the time was Greg Stafford's 'Three Dissertations on the Teachings of Jehovah's Witnesses.' It was a shock to the online JW community because Stafford was well-known and respected for defending JW doctrine, publishing large, detailed books doing so.

Stafford was having misgivings about e.g. 1914, blood, the idea of a governing body. It had an effect on me like Furuli's 'My Beloved Religion' did with u/patpatty in that Stafford put into words my feelings about what was off about these key teachings and it kickstarted a research binge on all kinds of subjects.

It was about 20 years ago (gosh! has it been that long?!) when I had started to play with that new (to me) toy called the internet and I found JW/JW-related discussion groups. It was the good old days when JWs, ex-JWs, and evangelicals would meet online to argue and thrash out matters of Bible doctrine. Fun times.

Anyway, some discussions about Jesus's Parousia and 1914 got me thinking and researching - especially as the year 2000 had already gone by without any signs of the big A and paradise coming. Re-reading the pertinent Bible texts left me with questions to which I could find no satisfactory answers in the WT literature, so I pulled my husband's copy of 'Sign Of The Last Days - When?' from the bookshelf and read its Appendix on '"Coming or "Presence."'

A line had been crossed and soon after I began to read all the banned books.

Good luck. If you're looking for a different sort of extreme religious entertainment to distract you from your own, you could always look at the Journal of Discourses app if you can be on your phone during the meeting. https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.lecodroid.jod Or bring a journal in which to write the thoughts which you cannot express out loud. Good luck from an exmo cousin.

meetup.com - I went to a meetup this evening I found there. This was the second time I've gone to that particular group's meetup. Had a great time both times. Making new friends in the new town I just moved to. My wife setup an ex-JW meetup group as well. We're having that meetup Saturday. Lots of groups all over the country. Find one.

Actually, the closest thing I could think of, as a free higher education, would be http://www.khanacademy.org/ I mean, let's be honest, that's a real free college education. (or at least, an educational supplement)

She is just trying to scare you it seems like. Unless those religious arrangements were agreed upon beforehand and in your custody arrangement you don't have to do anything. She legally has to let you see him in the way it says on the court documents. From what I've read and seen, custody cases with jws are really messy.... And stressful. If she won't comply its time to lawyer up. I would try to push for more visitation if you can as well. This religion is very dangerous, especially to little minds. http://www.sendspace.com/file/0f3jev These are the custody papers from bethel legal department. They basically train kids how to answer questions so jw parents get primary custody. Its an interesting read and may help you out if things get nasty. I wouldn't agree to anything but would keep pushing to see him. I don't think you need to go full apostate on her unless she continues to not let you see him and you guys go to court about it. That info would really help your lawyer. But adversely, it could help her bring arguments against you and how to fight your hold ups about them because she would now know all of your ammunition.

One thing I did that made it impossible for me to ever see it in another light was to make a list of all the things that bothered me with the organization, anything that didn't feel right or that I knew to be absolute rubbish. I jotted down little things...having to wear dresses in freezing cold weather...to failures of prophecy and shocking scandals both local and global. Before I started my list, I thought I had one or two pet peeves.

I filled two pages of paper.

I then broke that list down into 3 categories: Organization, Doctrine, and Personal. I assigned each item to one of those categories. They came out pretty evenly. (I was hoping it was all personal, which would prove I was the one with the problem.) This showed that the problem was systemic. It was like a cancer that had infected every part of what I thought to be true.

Now, when I tried to reason that "if they just fix this one thing, I could deal with it..." all I had to do was look at my list. There is NO WAY they will ever fix all those things. If everyone who hurt me apologized and behaved themselves, it wouldn't solve the doctrinal lies and organizational shenanigans. If the society comes out with an apology for child abuse cover ups, it won't take away that all their presidents were alcoholic, womanizing, money-grabbing crackpots.

It's the collective evidence that convinced me, and kept me from taking any of their "study material" seriously. In fact, I haven't opened it since. If it isn't lying to me, it's trying to brainwash me.

One thing they are absolutely right about - you can't eat at the table of God and the table of demons. They just placed themselves at the wrong table.

I just put the whole thing up on my blog: https://wordpress.com/post/confessionsofamerrywidow.wordpress.com/138

1. Welcome!

2. Congrats on your foray into a new and exciting hobby!

3. I've been target shooting since I was a kid; pistol and rifle. Occasionally shotgun, sporting clays, skeet.

4. Ear protection: Get yourself some Walkers Slim electronic ear muffs. They are worth every penny. They silence the gun shots, but allow you to speak and hear normally. Here:

https://www.amazon.com/Walkers-Razor-Slim-Electronic-Black/dp/B01AAH8CMA/ref=sr_1_2?crid=1Q8OROLE7797M&amp;dchild=1&amp;keywords=walkers+slim+shooter+electronic+muff&amp;qid=1610718189&amp;sprefix=Walkers+slim%2Caps%2C160&amp;sr=8-2

1. If you want some real good instruction on firearms from a true Professor of Shooting, go check out Paul Harrel's YouTube page. Here's "Part 1" of his accurate hand gun shooting series. He's won National Championships, so he knows what he's talking about:
   

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lCRE3QeHZgc&amp;list=PLU3K98y0SVS8gSEuS5it9oG6MFxgGsZgL&amp;index=1

Good Luck!

Congratulations! Step down and Fade if you can, then hopefully the elders will not try to get you to stay or question your motives. Bonnie Zieman exjw who is a psychotherapist wrote some books:

https://www.amazon.com/EXiting-JW-Cult-Handbook-Witnesses-ebook/dp/B00YCJSJ5S

https://bonniezieman.com

Excellent.

In my process of learning what was done to me (being beaten into the JWs by two horrible scapegoating parents), I read this book:

https://www.amazon.com/Toxic-Parents-Overcoming-Hurtful-Reclaiming/dp/0553381407

Somewhere within that book, I think within the first few chapters, the author quotes a therapist friend and confidant who said:

>If I could give my clients one gift, it would be the ability to leave their [dysfunctional, destructive] families to their fates.

Those words hit me right between the eyes. Being able to totally drop any emotional connection to dysfunctional and judgmental parents (or those with other issues) was the greatest freedom a person could wish for.

This is one of my favorite quotes, and Meditations by Marcus Aurelius is one of my favorite books... which is why I feel really bad about revealing this next thing:

This isn't a quote from Marcus Aurelius, in fact it appears to only be a few years old. The closest quote we can find in his writings is still very different:

>Since it is possible that thou mayest depart from life this very moment, regulate every act and thought accordingly. But to go away from among men, if there are gods, is not a thing to be afraid of, for the gods will not involve thee in evil; but if indeed they do not exist, or if they have no concern about human affairs, what is it to me to live in a universe devoid of gods or devoid of Providence? But Gods there are, undoubtedly, and they regard human affairs; and have put it wholly in our power, that we should not fall into what is truly evil.

(As a side note, the statute in the image might be more accurate than the quote. The sculpture is normally attributed to Caracalla, but it is notoriously difficult to figure out which bust matches which figure from history. In fact, there isn't even a single sculpture ever found that can conclusively be proven to accurately portray Julius Caesar. So in reality it could be Aurelius, it's anyone's guess.)

EDIT - here are a couple sources: http://undeniably-atheist.blogspot.com/2011/10/fabricated-marcus-aurelius-quote.html?m=1 http://threeshoutsonahilltop.blogspot.com/2011/06/marcus-aurelius-and-source-checking.html?m=1

Meetup.com has an amazing variety of groups you can check out. Also, if you're near a hospital or big medical center check out their website for depression or anxiety support groups. And if we had to apologize for our derpicity here the whole sub would be full of nothing but :)

Google "Finkelstein & Silberman." 2 Israeli archaeologists who wrote an awesome book debunking everything in Exodus. Who cares how only a few hundred men pulled this off? If never happened (at least that's what the evidence shows!). And the fact that 2 Israelis published this is an amazing demonstration of how science ameliorates our biases. Check it out! Here's a link to NYT about their book. Finkelstein also has lectures on YouTube.

https://www.nytimes.com/books/first/f/finkelstein-bible.html

>Ok Burgess Shale to trilobites still nothing transitional.

Like I said, we don't expect to find much from this time period. Soft-bodied organisms don't fossilize well. Evolution by no means rests on whether or not we can find such organisms. There are mountains of evidence for it already elsewhere.

>As to using the words wanting to fly it was just an attempt. To make a point about how ludicrous all this seems since evolution was done with out purpose yet as I stated birds have hollow bones and feathers something that is done on purpose in aviation.

Play around with this simulation. It was built using the principles of natural selection, upon which evolution is based. This little app shows clearly that it's possible to get something that appears designed through selection with random mutations at its base. And like I said, the evidence for dinosaur-to-bird evolution is out there. I can link you to Google again if you'd like.

>All anyone can do is state a bunch of evolution theory to defend something that is not crawling around oozing out of a crack or growing out of something's back.

I have no idea what you are saying here.

>All I can say is Darwin must have been as pissed of at god as some of you are.

I'm not pissed at god. Why would I be pissed at a being for which I see no evidence that he even exists? Like Darwin, I looked at the evidence and saw that evolution explains the world around us in a way that creationism fails to.

>As to the brochure well I am sorry you did not like it.

It's not a matter of liking it or not. In fact I do like it for the reason that I find it not only hilarious, but an easy way to show that the JWs have no idea what they are talking about and are willing to use deception to pretend that they do.

Next time, try Deepl. It's much better at making coherent sentences than Google Translate is. Where Google Translate sounds awkward and artifical, Deepl is nearing fluency. It's great.

Take that quote, for example: "We seriously wonder whether you take the problem of sexual abuse within your community seriously ... With us you get the impression that you are out of contact with us."

Deepl translates this as: "We seriously question whether you take the problem of sexual abuse within your community seriously (...) We have the impression that you are avoiding contact with us."

And later:

Google Translate: "'The victims are angry and frustrated that it takes so long before there is a reaction', says chairman Raymond Hintjes of Reclaimed Voices. 'In discussions with the Ministry of Security and Justice, Minister Sander Dekker urged the board to enter into the conversation, but this is not answered.'"

Deepl: "'The victims are angry and frustrated that it takes so long to get a response,' says chairman Raymond Hintjes of Reclaimed Voices. In talks with the Ministry of Security and Justice, Minister Sander Dekker urged the Board of Trustees to enter into talks, but they did not do so.'"

This is directly from jwleaks.org, check out

https://twitter.com/religiouswatch/statuses/416911414406569985

http://www.sendspace.com/file/0y0a7g

Should the content move or you have any other issues accessing it, please PM me and I can send you an e-mail.

This file has been mirrored in these places:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B2fYNzAbUpqFemtMaHFqS2cybzg/view?usp=sharing

https://mega.nz/#!mlFCTK4D Use Key: d1QzSZd-iuQbhiIEtFh0OHDemEFdl72FyCk6CCNkkvw

The comment above about finances was excellent. One of my personal favorites and someone I recommend all the time is Frank Abagnale, the guy the movie "Catch me if you can" was about. He has written several books about protecting your personal finances and how to be a smart consumer. The guy is a genius. &quot;Scam me if you can&quot; is his recent one. Here he is talking at Google. A novice in finances will be better than most people if you take this man's advice. Check out the movie too. Smart man.

https://www.amazon.com/Quakers-Nazis-Inner-Light-Darkness/dp/0826211348

Quakers helped Jews emigrate. They also helped refugees and others suffering.

JW's did set a remarkable example of personal faith in concentration camps. However, it did not have the sort of outreach to others that Quakers did.

I think I said that in a balanced way.

First off, I want to deal with the issue of faith and belief:

Ya know, one of the problems with online atheism is the impression that you can't and shouldn't believe in anything, as if it's dangerous to believe in absolutely anything greater than yourself.

I'm an atheist, and I reject that notion.

Faith in general is belief without evidence. There are two things that are dangerous about faith: (1) when you put faith ahead of your own life, health, wealth, and education; (2) when you require anyone else to share the same faith.

What if you don't do any of those things?

What benefits do you gain from simply believing in something greater than yourself? Actually, believing you're part of something greater than yourself can help you build good habits which contribute to better health, wealth, education, and a better life. Everything is awesome! Everything is cool when you're part of a team!

That isn't just me talking either, nor am I endorsing any religion. That comes from Charles Duhigg's The Power of Habit... And The Lego Movie. (Great book, great movie.)

Now, about the bad stuff.

What it sounds like to me is that you once had this belief about the world that helped you rationalize why bad things happen. Now that that belief is gone, there's a void.

Bud, listen, bad things happen. The world is not completely good, nor is it completely bad. I suggest that expecting it to be completely good results in dissatisfaction. And when that happens, you try to explain it. And now that your old belief is gone, maybe you're left spinning your wheels a bit.

So don't expect it to be completely good. Give yourself permission to focus on yourself so you can improve your own lot, and if there's anything you can do to help during disasters, feel free to do so at your own discretion. You do you.

I hope that helps some. PM any time.

That's so cool! Congrats to both of you.

I think all of /r/exjw wants to see you two on a coffee date. A quick google search found Rico's Cafe which seems like a nice place. How does tomorrow after work sound? = D

> The most interesting thing I learned was that they literally bought an entire fucking mountain in China. A lot of the outside of Warwick is going to be solid granite.

Well, now we know where at least part of the money drain is...

This website (in Denver, unfortunately) lists the wholesale installed price of granite at $37 per square foot.

http://www.wholesalegranitedenver.com/products/?gclid=CP_ZttGixMsCFYGFaQod5rUMEg

On the other hand, this wholesale-only website lists the price per square meter at around $8...

http://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/Cheap-Tropical-Green-Granite_1149675676.html?spm=a2700.7724857.29.52.xthV5F

>and have the brothers over in China mine it

Wot the fuk...??

>The guy giving the tour told us that they originally had a different design, but they decided to go with this design because it would save them millions of dollars. Millions.

An even bigger Wot the FUK?? How the hell could an office (or 7 of them) cost millions of dollars???

>As much as a I wish I could say that they suck at building Warwick, it really is beautiful and cutting edge.

Which tells you (and me) that they must have used professional (& very expensive) architects. They wouldn't have gotten that level of modern efficiency from high-school & home-schooled volunteer labor.

Although I'll bet that they tossed in ONE college-educated JW, just for appearances sake.

>To which they shut me down and said he drowned when he was off the clock. They made sure I knew he died off the clock. But I mean, the poor guy still died. :/

So many things running through my head. So, the angels knock off their protection the instant a JW volunteer clocks out?

And... Drowned? Or committed suicide, maybe...?

> We need to get this one in rehab.

He posts horseshit like this and evidently is a Maroon 5 fan.

I'm thinking euthanasia is a more humane solution.

If you go the latest JW community PODCAST Steven Unthank talks all about it. Here:

https://player.fm/series/jw-community-podcast

It’s the one called “How the faithful and discreet slave were killed.”

Stephen shows how this court case changed the FDS to be only the 8 instead of them and the 144,000...hence the name of the podcast.

He shows the change in “mentally diseased” and how he fought against being labelled an apostate using the law.

Everyone should hear this one...

Alright got this thing figured out, I'll try to make few albums with appropriate heading and put them up here. This album has some oldies and oddities related to scum-bag Joe not a judge Rutherford.

Here are some Rutherford pdfs

Added: it's been a long time since I took a look over these. The article regarding no will left behind is an interesting read, it mentions both Beth sarim and Beth shan. Also notice, that during great depression Rutherford drove classy cars, two pictures show two different Cadillacs or is one a Lincoln? let's not forget that these were for bible princes who were supposed to be resurrected in 1925 but then were to inherit Beth sarim along with these vehicles. So poor old Rutherford had to use these until bible princes showed up, just doing god's work

<em>Shepherd the Flock of God</em> a.k.a. ks10

Chapter Nine

Implications of Disassociation

Disassociation is action taken by the individual

A committee is appointed to provide assistance if possible

Announce and report disassociation if established

>^1. Whereas disfellowshipping is an action taken by a judicial committee against an unrepentant wrongdoer, disassociation is an action taken by an individual who no longer desires to be one of Jehovah’s Witnesses. (1 John 2:19) The body of elders should appoint a committee of three elders to consider the facts.

>^2. A judicial committee should not continue an investigation into alleged wrongdoing if the accused person makes known his decision to disassociate himself. (w84 7/1 p. 31) However, at no time should the elders ask the accused if he desires to disassociate himself. If the elders are handling a particularly dif- ficult case and there is a question about whether the person has disassociated himself, it would be best for the committee to contact the branch office for further direction. If an individual is determined to disassociate himself, then the committee would prepare a summary of the alleged offense(s) and the evidence of such. This would be kept along with information regarding the disassociation. If the person later requests reinstatement, these matters would need to be considered with him at that time.

Check out meetup.com and find local groups that are focused on something you're interested in. Then you have that one thing in common and you can go from there. You can also find local interest groups and volunteer opportunities on Facebook. If co-workers invite you to socialize, do it. You'll meet new people as long as you open to doing so.

No, it wasn't sara lee it was Svenhard's. :) I'm 23 so I didn't get to experience the food for too long but I definitely remember these. I will never forget how delicious they were.

http://www.costco.com/Browse/Product.aspx?Prodid=11000684&amp;whse=BD_827&amp;Ne=5000001%204000000&amp;eCat=BD_827|11121|11257&amp;N=4007543%204294920926&amp;Mo=0&amp;No=0&amp;Nr=P_CatalogName:BD_827&amp;Ns=P_Price|1||P_SignDesc1&amp;lang=en-US&am...

> What the fuck? By who? No one ever said to do that in my congregation...

This web-cached link states:

Format
• If you own a personal business, you may use business letterhead.
• Use your own language. There is no need to have letters translated into Russian. If you are fluent in Russian, you may write letters in Russian.
• Letters should be one page in length and should be typewritten or neatly handwritten.
• Give attention to proper spelling, grammar, and punctuation.—be pp. 71-73.
• Add your personal signature to the letter.
• No copies of letters need to be sent to the elders, to the branch office, or to anyone else.
• Literature should not be included.
• Use your personal return address on the envelope. Be sure that the address of the official you are writing to matches that listed at the end of these instructions.
• Send by postal mail with sufficient international postage. Do not use e-mail.

Article: http://www.songfacts.com/detail.php?id=1884

This came up in Recovery Group 3 on Facebook. In the article, Tommy James says nothing about JWs or the Truth book, much less with regards to Crystal Blue Persuasion, which many have said was inspired by the Truth book.

Instead, Tommy has a pretty clear explanation, and it was something he read in Revelation 19.

So, if you're a JW like Robert in West Covina, you've been led to believe the song is definitely because of the Truth book and you really want to sell your favorite religion, what are you to do?

> Wether or not Tommy James got his inspiration from a JW's book shouldn't be the issue. We teach from the bible what the song says. The bible teaches the earth will be restored and that's what the song is saying. It says up there during an interview he got it from Revelation 19. Read it and see what it says.

Everyone else is saying how nice the song is and what memories they have. It's really quite sad to see JWs showing their arrogant colors online.

Did you tell us the story before about how she told you you could go be with your biological family? I think I remember that. She's in deep - one of the religious types where it's expressed as hostility and a venomous state of mind, rather than kind and peaceful.

Try to remember the <em>real</em> meaning of &quot;worldly&quot; when used to describe a person: Experienced and sophisticated.

Interestingly, the way the JW's use the word is consistent with using the word to describe things. Worldly things are material things, not spiritual things. Worldly people are experienced, knowledgeable, sophisticated.

I don't care how much venom any JW puts into that word, I take it as a complement…and it's true! Compared to them I'm quite worldly!

I'm takin' "worldly" back! ;)

Russell's letter dated 1913 pretty much says it all.

Dear Sister:

Yours of recent date is at hand and contents are noted. I agree with you that it would be very improper to bring young children to a meeting if they are restless and spoil the meeting for the adults. 

Your suggestion that you and your husband take turns in remaining at home to care for them seems to me a good one. There would be no objection to leaving them in charge of a competent nurse. If one of them is ten years of age or older they could care for themselves.

Praying for you the Lord's guidance, I retain

Your brother and servant in Him,
C.T. Russell

Download the 1913 letter.  It is typed out on pg.2

https://filetransfer.io/data-package/D7HfQIdP#link

Atlantis (Grandpa!)

When you link to it, just use the first part of the address. Sometimes if someone uses the longer address to find it and then review it, Amazon will link the review to you and not let it through. So, just this: https://www.amazon.com/Leaving-Witness-Exiting-Religion-Finding/dp/0735222541/

Congratulations!

It's off-the shelf hardware, runs openwrt out of the box (perfect for this sort of thing), $44.99 on Amazon. It's basically an afternoon project.

GL.iNet GL-AR750 (Creta) Travel AC VPN Router

If you’re serious about this and want to do real research outside of jw approved literature, give The Demon-Haunted World: Science as a Candle in the Dark by Ann Druyan and Carl Sagan a read.

If you’re too scared to read it (I’m being serious, I was once like you), here’s the Wikipidea article that explains it a bit.

I have not heard that but it wouldn't be surprising. Especially with the book of Revelation. It is thought that the "oracles" talked about in Greek and Roman literature were hallucinating.

I read the book "On Writing" by Stephen King. One thing that stuck out was a point me made about where his ideas come from. He said; (paraphrased) "when anyone asks a writer where they get their stories from, most of them will answer the same way. I don't know". With that in mind it is easy to see how the bible writers thought they were inspired.

Excellent stuff!

We've always had books on philosophy (husband needed to take that to get his Computer Science degree, and has been interested in it ever since), novels and poetry, regardless of what the cult dictated. I recently bought The Power of Habit myself, and have both Why Evolution Is True and Think on my "Later" shelf in my library account (stuff I want to put on hold when it's convenient).

I've been searching for titles in the library on critical thinking, cults, religion (I have a number of pages to go on that one), faith, spirituality, Armageddon, belief, and a few other topics to put on hold for later. We try to save a bit of space and money this way, we've just been through too many moves.

Currently I am reading You Are Not So Smart by David McRaney, The Tao Speaks adapted (in graphic novel form, which is fascinating) & illustrated by Tsai Chih Chung (a celebrated Chinese cartoonist), The Art of Non-Conformity by Chris Guillebeau, and Reading the Bible Again for the First Time by Marcus J. Borg (Karen Armstrong, author of A History of God liked this one).

what if what if what if

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6mmskXXetcg

watch that. Very persuasive ;)

The world is getting better, lots of facts to prove it. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jbkSRLYSojo

Religion ain't going away any time soon. at least not Islam.

Also--- get her to read Meditations by Marcus Aurelius. A nice bit of perspective. The stoic philosophy is very powerful in reminding us about the nature of life and the universe. Meditations is the bomb.

I know! This bugs me so much!

Contemporary definition: "someone living during the same period as someone else; a person who is of the same age as you." https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/contemporary

As with all things, you need context! The context doesn't allow you to pick two people that were alive at the same time and consider them contemporaries.

Hey, I'm an atheist, but I still believe in spirituality. I get what you're saying because I'm kind of like that. I have like a hole left in my heart once I left god and religion behind. But just because one is an atheist doesn't mean that your mental health disappears. For a lot of us, we still need to nurture a spirituality.

Love is what I believe in now. Why?

Love isn't selfish. Practicing concepts that aren't selfish make you feel good. Nurtures your spirituality. Maybe one day you can make sandwiches and take them to the homeless? Maybe you can volunteer at a doggy pound. Or maybe you can sign up to do volunteer work at a cancer hospital. Hospitals are ALWAYS looking for volunteers.

Or you can try Yoga. But not like the fashion yoga that people go to so that they can stretch. I mean the REAL yoga. Just click here and find one that's close to you!.

There is some great research being done on the issues involved with shunning. I believe in Ohio.

My original Combating book was translated into Italian but I would love to find an Italian publisher who might like to do the updated edition as well as my Freedom of Mind book (which is in German now). it is usually a publisher that hires a translator to do a book. They of course need to sign a contract with me.

&#x200B;

BTW, do you know that Combating Cult Mind Control is now on Audible? https://www.audible.com/pd/Combating-Cult-Mind-Control-Audiobook/B07GZVGN9F

I've always wondered why volumes 7 & 8 were never published on jw.org. There doesn't seem a reason for them not to put it, if they already put other volumes.

Anyway, here you go: Volume 7, Volume 8

As sentient emotional beings, I agree that we can't know/appreciate food without hunger, comfort without having experienced pain etc.. I don't personally believe this is an ideal situation though. Sometimes I think it would be better to make all decisions based on rational thought and to be emotionless like Spock or Data on Star Trek. Perhaps artificial intelligence and machines will evolve past humans one day. From an objective point of view, mankind is pretty fucked up.

Personally I'm a hedonist and try to maximize pleasure and minimize pain. Although I realize pain is necessary and I tolerate and even initiate it when needed, like when lifting weights.

As an ex-christian I've studied many religions and philosophies searching for meaning in life. Buddhism and the four noble truths seem to provide the best answer for me regarding suffering. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Four_Noble_Truths . The book Siddhartha by Herman Hesse affected me the most and deals with the processes man goes though in searching for meaning. I highly recommend it. It's not the best format but it is free on the web: https://www.gutenberg.org/files/2500/2500-h/2500-h.htm

In the end, I don't subscribe to any religion or philosophy wholly. I grab bits and pieces here and there. I believe it is up to each individual to define and find meaning in his or her life. And, that in the end, oblivion waits for us all. And if that isn't scary as shit, I don't know what is. So I try to heed Bukowski's advice "I think the whole trick is to not think about it."

>Eric can't eat my god because my god is all-powerful, way too strong for Eric.

Eric is more powerful then your god, because he can eat your god.

>Last week I felt depressed and had been crying all day. I prayed to my god to help me.

Look at Eric and you'll be happy again.

>See? My god heard my prayer and sent me help, which means he exists, and is stronger than your Eric tiny fake-ass bird.

It was Eric who helped you. He saw you crying and send you good vibes. Because he ate your god and know, he is the only who could help you.

>Check mate, atheist!

Check mate, believer!

I think it's great that you've posted this and are looking to find folks to be friends with. Don't forget that meetup.com has ex-JW meetups in most large-ish cities. Great way to find people in your area to befriend.

Here is the audio. You have your choice of WAV, FLAC, OGG, aac and of course mp3. Info file included.

Via Google

Via Mega

If you look at the book released at the 2014 Regional Convention, <em>God's Kingdom Rules!</em> {non wt link}, you will find they mention the year 1919 through out. They allude to it with "Especially" and "With out a doubt" but never present how they arrive at that year.

This is mostly due to the fact that the year was calculated with teachings they no longer hold! It is a hold over, but still key for their claim to authority.

I recently had to write college application also. I used the Hemingway web app This helped me to see sentences that were too difficult to read, and restructure them in a way that was easier to read.

Overall I like it! What's the question or topic that you're writing about? I'm guessing it has something to do with your background or growing up?

I was never a JW but rather a Quaker. Then an atheist for a long, long time. The evidence available to me seemed to permit no other conclusion. But one day while thinking exhaustively about the implications of materialism and determinism, something new occurred to me. A form of theism that followed from the same evidence which once convinced me of atheism, just thought through further.

I am not absolutely convinced of it, but it appears true to me as atheism did before it. I will say it has made me determined to never be convinced I have The Truth(tm). Truth is not a destination, but a never-ending journey.

You might find this analysis interesting,

>In the book Slaughterhouse-Five written by Kurt Vonnegut he writes, "This one is a failure, and had to be, since it was written by a pillar of salt." >Explanation >Vonnegut compares himself to Lot’s wife, looking back upon the destruction of Dresden. >Instead of forgetting his horrible experiences and moving on with his life, he is focusing on the past. The past, which damaged and scarred a society that has just begun to pick up the pieces of their shattered lives and is still mourning the loss of their loved ones. Vonnegut recognizes that his story is to be a failure, because he is not bringing hope to a nation that is wanting to move onto a better future, like that of Lot and his family.

It's just an essay; food for thought, nothing definitive.

https://prezi.com/wmq2vyt3x1in/vonnegut-compares-himself-to-lots-wife-looking-back-upon/?webgl=0

Edit: Though I must say, that I read it many years ago, but did feel it was a real 'downer' book. It wasn't a pleasurable reading experience. I mean, even A Clockwork Orange, scary and true as it was, didn't give me a down. Interesting.

You think Crisis blows your mind? Read The Reluctant Apostate by Lloyd Evans. It covers stuff that is in Crisis, but goes even deeper down the rabbit hole, bringing the reader pretty close to up to date on the Borg.

https://smile.amazon.com/Reluctant-Apostate-Leaving-Jehovahs-Witnesses/dp/0995669104/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&amp;qid=1537552743&amp;sr=8-1&amp;keywords=the+reluctant+apostate

Man's Search for Meaning, by Victor Frankle

Humanism is an Existentialism, by Jean Paul Sartre

The Myth of Sisyphus, by Albert Camus

Meditations, by Marcus Aurelius

Seven Habits of Highly Successful People, by Steve Covey

Getting to Yes, by Roger Fisher and William Ury

Download the app "Smart Voice Recorder" here. I used it to record a convo with a JW. It's great because you can adjust the sensitivity and background noise. It can record up to 9 hrs. Just casually hold in in your hand, phone, pocket, etc. while talking to him, careful not to cover the microphone. Try to get him to admit to hitting a newborn infant and the courts will most likely give you full custody rights.

I've heard about that somewhere in my travels, so did a quick search.

Two Spirit People:

"...androgynous or transgender persons are seen as doubly blessed, having both the spirit of a man and the spirit of a woman. Thus, they are honoured for having two spirits, and are seen as more spiritually gifted than the typical masculine male or feminine female... Therefore, many Native American religions, rather than stigmatising such persons, often looked to them as religious leaders and teachers."

https://www.theguardian.com/music/2010/oct/11/two-spirit-people-north-america

Your FBF is an idiot who probably thinks she's learned. Spare us from fools.

They vary from place to place. Older American kingdom halls tend to lack windows, but worldwide they run the gamut - check out the photo gallery at the bottom of this site:

http://www.wikiwand.com/en/Kingdom_Hall

Yes, but I can't find it written anywhere. I think they will follow the rules that apply when a certified letter can't be delivered.

<em>Shepherd the Flock of God</em> a.k.a. ks10

Chapter 6 pg.83

>^8. The assigned elders should make every effort to arrange for a judicial hearing right away. Leaving the matter unresolved can harm the congregation and the accused. If the accused does not make himself available to receive an oral invitation despite repeated efforts by the judicial committee, then the judicial committee should send a written invitation. (Do not leave confidential information on an answering machine or voice mail or send by way of e-mail.) A written invitation signed by the judicial committee should include the same information as outlined above for an oral invitation. If possible, send the invitation in such a way that the elders can verify that the addressee received it. If they are unsuccessful in their diligent efforts to invite him and they cannot confirm that he received the invitation, they should hold the matter in abeyance.

<em>Shepherd the Flock of God</em> a.k.a. ks10

Chapter 7 pg.99

>^24. Once the case has been concluded, no further judicial action is taken unless the wrongdoer again engages in gross wrongdoing. However, in rare cases there may be an exception if within a few days of the decision new information comes to light that makes it obvious to the judicial committee that the wrongdoer was not repentant, perhaps because he gave misleading testimony or purposely omitted important facts during the hearing. In such instances there may be a basis for the judicial committee to reconsider its decision and decide to disfellowship, especially if no announcement of reproof had been made. When the hearing resumes, the individual would be given opportunity to hear any new evidence and to present his side of the matter. In cases of this nature, it is best to inquire of the branch office for direction before proceeding.

Depends on where one is at.

Starbucks is frequented by upwardly mobile younger people, moderate to liberal-minded people (except perhaps for that one in Philadelphia), and so the customer profiles indicate that they would be less tolerant of bigoted behaviors.

http://smallbusiness.chron.com/starbucks-target-audience-10553.html

https://www.fool.com/investing/2016/06/16/who-is-starbucks-favorite-customer.aspx

>Who is Starbucks' favorite customer? Its target demographic is urban and affluent, often on-the-go white-collar professionals looking to take their caffeine fix with them to the office. The company considers its core customers to be educated, with an average age of 42, and average income of $90,000.

Note especially the "educated" part. That is not the group to be particularly impressed by the biases of an anti-education cult.

https://www.audible.com/ep/freetrial a link to a free audio copy of the book. I’m married to OP and have lost 50 pounds on the diet. I don’t work out like he does, it’s all diet. Basically eat every 3-4 hours, drink half your body weight in water every day, and avoid wheat, soy, corn, sugar, dried fruit, fruit juice, and bananas.

Here is a link in case anyone wants a more thorough look at the crazyness in all its glory:

https://archive.org/stream/TheDivinePlanOfTheAgesAndTheGreatPyramid/1913_The_Divine_Plan_of_the_Ages_and_the_Great_Pyramid#page/n3/mode/2up

Hello, I'm a bot! The movie you linked is called The Imitation Game, here are some Trailers

Yeah, you do get a bible at a bible study. But if I were you I'd try to contact some exjw groups on meetup.com to see if they have extra bibles lying around. You could also go to a Kingdom Hall and visit their literature stand there. I think you can go on the website and have someone come visit you and give you a bible as well.

I'll second that recommendation for meetup.com. My problem though is actually committing to and going out to the events. There's a group that meets once a month here for Karaoke. I freaking LOVE Karaoke, but I've never gone to any of the events. I just scroll through the pics posted the day after each event, kicking myself for not going. I guess it's good to have a significant other in your life that can help pull you out the door and go to some events. It must feel good to have people in your life that cares.

If you haven't yet, please read Eve's Diary by Mark Twain. It is a beautiful short story that expresses much of this--often quite humorously. It's part of what helped me wake up.

Classical Group Think mentality, very difficult to get out of, in the corporate environment there are often helpful strategies to overcome this: https://www.shutterstock.com/blog/6-strategies-for-overcoming-groupthink

JW.org has them all covered -

-Diversity not permitted (i.e no Woman in Leadership, No-one except Elders and MS can take the lead.) -JW.org is always right -No debate -No external research -The Devils advocate role can only be played by JW.org -No independent evaluation or thought

No wonder the eyes are always glazed over!

I forgot to share a post about this but Hidden Brain also has this episode where the Jehovah's Witness religion is mentioned. It's called "Creating God" and talks about how religion came to be and the role it played in building societies in the past.

Link: https://castbox.fm/x/M5mN

lufecaep:

Payment requests?

The August S-147 Announcements had a page with donation amounts on page 5. I scanned that page to be a little larger.

You can download all of it here:

https://www.filemail.com/d/xvkgzkxliuqrqxb

Grandpa!

Here you go. Records Management Videos. Let me know if you need a copy of the "Certificate Of Destruction" that is shown in one of the videos. That is the document some unsuspecting brother has to fill out when records are destroyed. This way, the Watchtower can always blame him if the authorities get involved.

https://filetransfer.io/data-package/oEVBUEEg#link

Atlantis!

there is a copy of the kyria abrahams book plus a few more from my own library on my skydrive here: https://onedrive.live.com/redir?resid=75994594B06690A7%21141

feel free to browse and download.....i add to it each week.

I have been out for a long time (since 1995) and when people express themselves in a way that expresses they still have faith, it throws me for a loop. I think as human beings it is totally normal to want to be loved (and don't credit Jeebs for that).

I think sometimes pining for what we don't have is how we miss out on joys and experiences we can have. The alternative is if singleness is truly making you feel terribly unloved then proactively seek out a relationship (match.com, e-harmony, etc.). Join a gym, book club, go to bars, let your co-workers or friends know that you're single (blind dates do work).

Link for the lazy like me.

Direct to article.

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2015/jun/7/jehovahs-witnesses-going-door-to-door-in-closed-do/

And to blog

https://disqus.com/home/discussion/washtimes/jehovahs_witnesses_going_door_to_door_in_closed_door_world/